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bbbrownfield

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Reply with quote  #26 
Don't forget to reset the zero on your calipers. The bushing and holder usually come to right at 2.000", and zero is usually off by a few thousandths of an inch when you check it after attaching the tool. Once you've done that you can take your measurements again.
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dmr

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Reply with quote  #27 
wikster,

have you any numbers on the ocelot--i am curious about it?  i haven't had much luck finding anything on that cartridge. you also asked for photos of the cases.  i do not have a camera or cell phone to pull that off.  yeah, that's right, no cell phones

BB, thanks for the reminder and i will make certain tomorrow when i start up again.

bigdawg,  tried another new magpul magazine and it is still not feeding.  tomorrow i am going to switch out lowers and see what happens.
also just ordered a slot gauge from sheridan.  battlerattle, thanks for the links to help get one. 

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dmr

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Reply with quote  #28 
loaded three rounds with 16.5 grains of a1680 (which seems really low to me) and used a different lower.  i should note that i used the hornady comparitor and the instructions and guidance from you all to set up these cases prior to loading and shooting.  the first two fired off nicely last, one did not feed from the magazine.  the primers looked decent--little flattened as they should be but nothing ridiculous.
 

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BIGGDAWG

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Reply with quote  #29 
which pmags do you have?

i will see if i have some and run them to see what is up. we really have not had any complaints of feeding with mags.

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Cabob

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Reply with quote  #30 
DMR, sorry that you're having so much trouble with your WLV. By chance, the bullets aren't so close to the lands that you're causing high pressure symptoms or hitting the rifling, are they? I only ask because when I first got my WLV last year I tested the Nosler 110 gr. FBSP bullets (which are an exact copy of the 110 gr. Sierra) and found that I hit the lands at 2.195. I had to load them to 2.175 and found that I hit a max load at 21.8 gr. of AA1680! However, I never had a feed problem with any of the mags I chose. 20 and 30 rd. gen 2 magpul, or 10 rd. gen 3 magpul. Maybe a feed ramp problem? Any burrs, or rough spots? Oh, and my chamber comes out to 1.267 with the comparator, and I set my cases to 1.264-1.265. I hope that may help a little, and hopefully you can get your's working. We're all here to be your sounding board if you need it!
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Rifter

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Reply with quote  #31 
I've gone through this thread a couple times.  I think part of your problem is a mismatch between the powder and the bullet weight.

1680 is too fast for the 110 gr. weight.  One of my first loads to test was the Hornady 110 HPBT w/c behind 23.6 gr of 2200.  That load proved to be about .5 to .7 gr. below blowing pockets on the brass.  If anything, 2200 was a touch slow for the 110 bullet, but the next fastest was 1680 and it was a touch too fast with the 110.  The 110 gr. bullet is not really ideal for the Wolverine either.

From further testing, it seems the ideal bullet weight is 90-100 gr., and the best fit powder wise is Shooter's World Blackout.  Blackout and 1680 run grain for grain in most loads in the 90-100 gr. range, with the edge going to Blackout.  It seems to be a tad faster and a tad less pressure compared to an equal charge of 1680.

If somebody comes up with a powder that is in between 1680 and 2200 that would probably be the ideal for the 110 gr. but I don't know what it would be at this point.

Just for reference, I seat my bullets to the cannelure in the Wolverine, and with the 23.7 Blackout and 90 gr. load, ejection is perfect at 4 o'clock.  I'm running a 16" mid-gas barrel, and A2 stock and buffer.  All my mags are Magpul Gen 2/3 30 rd window mags.  Feeding has been flawless from day one.

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Cabob

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Reply with quote  #32 
Good observation, Rifter! Good info too.
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dmr

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Reply with quote  #33 
bigdawg, new gen 2, 30 round magazines.  just took them (2) out of the plastic wrapper(s).

rifter, i just ordered 2 boxes of 90 grain bullets for this calibre.  you think the 1680 powder too fast, eh?  i would really rather not buy another pound of something else, but if that's is what it takes...  tough to justify when i just bought a keg of varget.
blackout is a brownell powder, rlght?  is that available any place other than brownells?  hate to have to pay the hazmat on top of the cost of the powder.
i had some slightly longer cartridges i tried and there was no difference other than the primers becoming part of the case head.  may just have to abandon these 110s and go with the 90s.  16.5 grains of powder is nothing compared to what everyone else is loading.  it does go bang though.   smile....   

cabob, thank you for the additional information.  i noticed no burrs or obstructions.  i have a new c products mag i could try but likely the issue is something small and insignificant i'm over looking.  i'll check my overall length again and make certain i'm within spec.  i know there are no rough spots--it's not coming out of the mag at all.  it's not binding--just not feeding.  i'll tear it apart shortly and pour over it.

thanks guys for all your help.

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RangerJoe

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Reply with quote  #34 
DMR - A1680 is going to be FINE for 90 grain bullets in your .277 WLV.  I'd venture a safe bet that at least a hundred-thousand have been fired using 1680 with superb results well before Shooters World Blackout or CFC-Black came to market.  If you have A1680, it will do VERY well for you with 80~100 grain bullets in the Wolverine.

SW Blackout is not a Brownell's powder... although they and many other retailers sell it.  Shooters World is the US named distributor for Lovex powders made by Explosia Corp. of the Czech Republic.

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MDWS

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Reply with quote  #35 
SWBLK and 1680 both push a 110 just fine.

Heck, SWBLK pushes the 120SST better than any other powder and that bullet is a complete turd. (Quoting a good friend of mine)

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RedRaider

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Reply with quote  #36 
I did most of my early loadings with nothing but 1680 I load and shoot a bunch of 110 vmax, bthp and SPH over 20.6grs with velocities of 2480-2500 consistently.
Has anyone mentioned maybe his necks are too thick and causing pressure( I know he said LC brass) but that could be a problem. Reviewed my notes and have gone as high as 23 gr but bad pressure w/ my bbl. DMR do you have any 1200r on hand. My pet load with 110’s is 23.5 it hovers at 2490fps.
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dmr

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Reply with quote  #37 
red,  the neck thickness is not something i had considered and you may have it on something.  i could turn the necks on a few to see if that makes a difference.  
no, when purchasing, i opted for the a1680 instead of the 1200r.

your ~20.0 grains of 1680 with 110s sounds more in line than my 16.5 load.

ranger, then using the 90s, the 1680 won't be a total loss.  do you consider the sw blackout a better fuel than the cfc blackout? is the cfc a hodgdon powder?  it sounds familiar.  i don;'t have any experience with any of these powders.

the rifle will come around--it's just being finicky.  i tried talking to it, but to no avail. 

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Rifter

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmr
bigdawg, new gen 2, 30 round magazines.  just took them (2) out of the plastic wrapper(s).

rifter, i just ordered 2 boxes of 90 grain bullets for this calibre.  you think the 1680 powder too fast, eh?  i would really rather not buy another pound of something else, but if that's is what it takes...  tough to justify when i just bought a keg of varget.
blackout is a brownell powder, rlght?  is that available any place other than brownells?  hate to have to pay the hazmat on top of the cost of the powder.
i had some slightly longer cartridges i tried and there was no difference other than the primers becoming part of the case head.  may just have to abandon these 110s and go with the 90s.  16.5 grains of powder is nothing compared to what everyone else is loading.  it does go bang though.   smile....   

cabob, thank you for the additional information.  i noticed no burrs or obstructions.  i have a new c products mag i could try but likely the issue is something small and insignificant i'm over looking.  i'll check my overall length again and make certain i'm within spec.  i know there are no rough spots--it's not coming out of the mag at all.  it's not binding--just not feeding.  i'll tear it apart shortly and pour over it.

thanks guys for all your help.


Go back and carefully read what I said.  In my testing, 1680 with 110 gr. is a tad fast.  It could not reach the same velocity with the 110 that I got with 2200 without exhibiting signs of high pressure.

1680 is excellent for the 90-100 gr. range, as is Blackout.  Blackout, however, is slightly better in velocity and slightly less in pressure for the same charge weight.  That's why I use only Blackout now, and why I only run 90 gr., even though the Hornady 110 HPBT w/c is a favorite.  It did superb work for me in the 6.8.

1200R was mentioned and that is also a good powder for the heavier bullets.  You can run it almost grain for grain with 2200.  I found that it tends to get somewhat spiky if you push it hard at the top end.  2200 does not do that.

Point here, is that every rifle responds to any particular powder in its own way.  Every powder responds to each barrel/bullet combo somewhat differently.  And, if you're up at the red line, burn rates can change.  Of course, when multiple people get similar results you can draw some general conclusions.  That's all I did above.  You still have to work up your loads in your rifle.  That job is easier because of the experiences the rest of us have had with ours.

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BIGGDAWG

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Reply with quote  #39 
yes CFE Blk is a hodgdon powder

here is how i rate the powders for the wolverine

#1  shooters world black out  80-120 grain bullets
#2 AA1680   80 to 110 grain bullets
#3 CFE BLK  80 to 110 grain bullets
then you get in to 1200R, aa2200 and AA5744

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RangerJoe

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Reply with quote  #40 
DMR - I hope you are getting the point several of us are trying to make... that being, if you do NOT want to buy other/different powder than what you have, A-1680 will do VERY well in the WLV.  Is it everyone's favorite flavor of ice cream?  Maybe not; but it isn't a turd either.  My point was and still is... you do NOT need to buy new powder to get extremely good results from your .277 WLV and the 90 grain bullets you have in-coming. 

If you are NOT getting acceptable results with the WLV and 80~100~110 gr bullets, A-1680 is NOT to blame. 

BTW, I have at least 30~40 powders, including SW Blackout, CFC Black, and a dozen Accurate blends.  I have my favorite flavors too... but I'm bothered if a newcomer is told the only way to get acceptable performance is with flavor-X, when in fact several flavors - including what you already own - do extremely well.

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dmr

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Reply with quote  #41 
thank you brother.  i understand fully what you are saying and appreciate your clarification.  i have been reloading for nearly 50 years and like most of our ilk, have a plethora of powders, bullets and dies.  you were absolutely on point by saying (paraphrase), each prefers their own flavour, and that is true for rifles too.  i just want to make certain what i am doing is correct and the results show itself a good representative of mdws.  

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dmr

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Reply with quote  #42 
it  is  ALIVE!!!  tore the whole machine completely apart, rechecked it, reassembled, adjusted my dies per big dawg's training academy, used the hornady comparator coupled with the sheridan engineering slot gauge (incredible by the way), loaded 11 rounds of a1680 with 110 bullets, took it out this morning and fired all 11 without a miss!  fed from the magazine like it was made for it.  YEAH DADDY! 
thank you to everyone who contributed their insight into helping me get this on track.  
i have to say this forum is lousy with some really good people willing to share quality information.  i am glad to be a part of it. 

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bbbrownfield

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Reply with quote  #43 
Congrats. Good job working your way through it- we'll make a wildcatter out of you yet...[smile]
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MDWS

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmr
it  is  ALIVE!!!  tore the whole machine completely apart, rechecked it, reassembled, adjusted my dies per big dawg's training academy, used the hornady comparator coupled with the sheridan engineering slot gauge (incredible by the way), loaded 11 rounds of a1680 with 110 bullets, took it out this morning and fired all 11 without a miss!  fed from the magazine like it was made for it.  YEAH DADDY! 
thank you to everyone who contributed their insight into helping me get this on track.  
i have to say this forum is lousy with some really good people willing to share quality information.  i am glad to be a part of it.

Glad to hear it!

But, you really think the forum is lousy? ;-)

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battle rattle

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Reply with quote  #45 
great news, what do you think was the issue?
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Bajabusdoc

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Reply with quote  #46 
1680 20.4, 110gr vmax in my 16 is sweet spot that powder and bullet over 41 primer
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Hunter Big Jon

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Reply with quote  #47 
Sweet glad you got it running. Now it's time to play and see what it likes .
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dmr

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Reply with quote  #48 
firstly i should clarify lousy.  just a term i use to describe an abundance.  for example if hunting someplace for deer and there are deer all over, the place is lousy with deer.  nothing negative or derogatory intended.  it's all good.  feel free to use it any time, just remember you heard it here first.

honestly, i think the problem was multi-faceted, however the key offender was likely not matching the case or cartridge to the chamber.  like biggdawg stated, and i paraphrase, not adjusting the headspace properly leads to pressure spikes and that creates additional problems.  once reading biggdawg's post on wildcat die adjustment, i was able to do so plus having that slotted cartridge gauge made life much easier.  without the gauge, solving the problem was a blind repair.

i used 20.0 grains just as a safe load but haven't fired for accuracy or even sighted it in.  the salient issue was to get it to function.  now maybe get some time to sight in.  as i mentioned in the past ( i think) my wife now wants her own rifle, but of course, in a wildcat.  she has chosen the .257 ocelot and has been shopping for parts continuity but it still has to be rude looking.  oh, another one of my words.   so i may get to sight-in the wolverine--after completing her rifle.  heck, there really is no hurry--even with a brass catcher, i still lost one of my cases in the snow.


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MDWS

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmr
firstly i should clarify lousy.  just a term i use to describe an abundance.  for example if hunting someplace for deer and there are deer all over, the place is lousy with deer.  nothing negative or derogatory intended.  it's all good.  feel free to use it any time, just remember you heard it here first.

honestly, i think the problem was multi-faceted, however the key offender was likely not matching the case or cartridge to the chamber.  like biggdawg stated, and i paraphrase, not adjusting the headspace properly leads to pressure spikes and that creates additional problems.  once reading biggdawg's post on wildcat die adjustment, i was able to do so plus having that slotted cartridge gauge made life much easier.  without the gauge, solving the problem was a blind repair.

i used 20.0 grains just as a safe load but haven't fired for accuracy or even sighted it in.  the salient issue was to get it to function.  now maybe get some time to sight in.  as i mentioned in the past ( i think) my wife now wants her own rifle, but of course, in a wildcat.  she has chosen the .257 ocelot and has been shopping for parts continuity but it still has to be rude looking.  oh, another one of my words.   so i may get to sight-in the wolverine--after completing her rifle.  heck, there really is no hurry--even with a brass catcher, i still lost one of my cases in the snow.



Oh I knew what you meant, that's why I did the wink thing after it...!

Glad to hear it's running now.

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Cabob

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Reply with quote  #50 
Glad to hear that you have it up and running!
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