Modern Sporting Rifle Evolution
Register Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 3      1   2   3   Next
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #1 
I think I'm in love, but don't tell my wife!!!

Ok, I'm actually in love with her too, but that's a whole other subject. For a Christmas present she "let" me purchase one of the five available 257 Ocelot barrels. I chose a 20". (I've been prepping for this round for months)!

I had already sorted out some LC brass by years of manufacture and decided to choose LC 07 as my brass of choice for the Ocelot. I weight sorted 100 cases and proceeded to size them.

This is the most important part of reloading for this round! 
The other night I pre-fitted the barrel to the upper and torqued it down (I didn't have all of the parts to completely assemble the upper) in order to get a head space measurement and to get some bullet measurements. I sized the brass using the sample round that came with the modified 6mm Mongoose dies, as a guide, and came out with a measurement of 1.423 using the hornady body comparator and .330 bushing. I was worried that I would have too much head space, but didn't. Keep reading. I then trimmed the brass to roughly 1.693-1.695 (expecting the brass to shrink upon initial firing, which it did.) The bullet chosen for initial testing were the discontinued 87 gr. Hornady SP. They hit the lands a 2.325 and the base will be just below the neck/shoulder junction when seated to magazine depth.

Here are the rest of the specs.
257ocelotdata.jpg 
Ok, so today was the day that I finally decided to assemble the upper for the Ocelot.

It's a whopping 18* degrees outside right now, and snowing. It was only 8* this morning! What better way to spend a cold winter morning, right?

Parts included:

Aero Precision Enhanced Upper
Aero Precision Quantum 15" hand guard
Joe Bob .750 low pro gas block 
Rifle Length gas tube
20" MDWS 257 Ocelot barrel
Grovetec muzzle thread protector
Blue loctite

45 min later, one completed upper. (Sorry, no pic right now.)

I then stole the scope and qd mount off of my Wolvie. I also used the same lower as I use with the 277 WLV, along with the carbine spring and buffer. (Not the best part yet!)

Next, lunch....

Then shooting, albeit quick shooting because of the temperature, yay!!!!!

I used an ASC mag for the testing. It worked perfect!

I didn't even bother to bore sight the gun today because of the snow on the ground. I already had some old oil filters on the ground at 90 yards and figured that would be good enough for today!

First up, a single round to check for lock back and ejection timing!

Perfect 4:00 ejection landing about 6 ft. away from the bench. 
Bolt locked back
Hit about 8 inches above point of aim. (Dialed the scope down four inches)

Second round
Perfect ejection, landing within 6 inches of the first shell.
Bolt locked back
Nailed an oil filter in the head while aiming at it's base. (Dialed the scope down two more inches)

Ahh, screw it, let's load the other eight rounds in the mag and see how it works! 
Perfect, never missed another oil filter even with them rolling on the ground.
All but two spent cases landed within a pie plate sized circle on the ground!!!
And the best part, with the rifle gas and weight of the gun, I could see the impact of every round! Awesome!

I took some measurements of the brass back at the reloading building. 
Decapped with a universal decapper. Checked primer pockets with a Ballistic Tools Swage Gauge. All felt great!
Head space measurement: 1.427 w/ .330 comparator (.004-.005 head space. I'll tighten that up and set the die to 1.424-1.425 for subsequent firings) (Not bad for first firings)
Case length: 1.688-1.691 ( so yeah, they shrunk about .005 upon initial firing)

I think tonight will be a good night to load up a few rounds. I already have a few powders selected to test over the chronograph whenever the weather will let me.
H335
H322
Ramshot Xterminator
Ramshot TAC
Winchester 748
AA2200

I'm sure one of them will provide the optimal burn rate for the Ocelot and will generate sufficient velocity. I think this is going to be a great round for deer and antelope hunting.

All in all, this is a great start to a special "Cat". 

Merry Christmas everyone,
Caleb

0
wikster1983

Avatar / Picture

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 952
Reply with quote  #2 
I'm glad its running perfect for you Caleb! Enjoy your new toy! Cant wait too see what it gets tested on in your neck of he woods! Merry christmas!
__________________

A good marksman can make shots past 500 yards; a good hunter doesn't need to
0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #3 
Merry Christmas to you as well, Adam.

Ok, quick update... Did I tell ya how much I like this round? And I've only fired 10 test rounds so far. Here's what I loaded up over the past 2.5 hours. I cross referenced data from others that have already tested  the 257 Ocelot and 6mm Mongoose, as well as published data from reputable sources for the 6mm TCU, 25-45 Sharps, and 6.5 TCU. Here's what I came up with.
257ocelotpowders.jpg 
The only powder that seems that it might not work, right off the bat, is Winchester 748. I'm sure it's going to be way too slow. I had to cut down my original estimate from 28.5 as a max load to 27.3 because of extreme compression. Ramshot TAC is similar, but I know that I'll gain more case capacity with fire formed brass so I'm not worried about that powder. If anything looks way too high, please let me know, thanks.
End of updates for now.  

Caleb

0
wikster1983

Avatar / Picture

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 952
Reply with quote  #4 
I cant offer much help with some of those powders, but I think your 2200 is starting a bit low- but better to start that way. H335 looks like a good start too. Can't wait to see your findings! More data makes it better for everyone! Enjoy and be safe!

P.S tip your barrel with one of those hmd's and watch every hit on game, even when lower light there is almost no flash either! They totally compliment this low recoiling caliber!

__________________

A good marksman can make shots past 500 yards; a good hunter doesn't need to
0
MDWS

Avatar / Picture

ADMINISTRATOR
Registered:
Posts: 4,979
Reply with quote  #5 
Nice work Caleb!
__________________
Don't mistake kindness for weakness...


We are charged with upholding the constitution, from all threats, foreign or domestic, and we will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.


-Mark



0
Sconsin Rick

Member
Registered:
Posts: 16
Reply with quote  #6 
I ran Win 748 today with the Speer 87g TNT. at 2.295 oal. while it was slow, it was accurate. my LC06 fresh case holds 30.3 grains of 748. i loaded from 27.3 (2624fps) to 28.5 (2773fps), in .3g increments, best group was 0.652 worst was 1.075 . I have a ton of it and may use 28.2g at 2720 as a fireform load. I'm sure i could fit another half to one grain without it being to much of an issue with pressure. 
__________________
Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add 'within the limits of the law' because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.

0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #7 
Man, good on you. I just shot all of my loaded rounds yesterday, but haven't had time to post the results. Yeah, 748 is slow. I loaded to up to 27.3, and came up with velocity very similar to you. I think my chrono was reading slow though. I will post all of my results in the next couple days. Good work!
0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #8 
I really need to rename this thread, except i dont know how. The wife will probably get mad at me for liking this kitty more than her😉, just kidding, maybe..... I'm pretty sure I'm going to have lots of posts over the next couple months! More to come....
0
BIGGDAWG

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 2,489
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cabob
I really need to rename this thread, except i dont know how. The wife will probably get mad at me for liking this kitty more than her😉, just kidding, maybe..... I'm pretty sure I'm going to have lots of posts over the next couple months! More to come....
nice 

to change the title on the original post click on edit then click on use full  editor it will let you change it if not let me know what you want it changed to and i can change it for you.

__________________
http://www.7mmvalkyrie.com




0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #10 
Thanks, got it fixed.
0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #11 
Ok, here's my results from a bunch of shooting the other day. Sorry, I'm tardy. I've been feeling under the weather the past few days and today is the first day that my sinus' aren't causing me to feel as if the world is spinning on it's axis.

Onto the results. 
Powders tested: H335            (26.5-28.0 gr)
                        H322            (24.5-26.0 gr.)
                        AA2200        (23.5-25.0 gr.)
                        Xterminator  (26.0-27.5 gr.)
                        TAC              (27.0-28.5 gr.)
                        Win 748        (26.7-27.3 gr.)
Date: 12/28/17
Barrel: MDWS 20" 1:10 257 Ocelot
Bullet: Discontinued Hornady 87 gr. SP
Case: LC 07 (All fresh brass)
Primer CCI 450
Length: 2.290 OAL
Temperature: 30 degrees 
Range: 50 yds

Here's the target, for what it's worth!



257ocelot50ydchrono.jpg 

The top left group is from a 257 Roberts. It's a truck gun and I always use it to check my chrono accuracy. I've tested this load probably a dozen times from 20 degrees to 95 degrees, with the velocity ranging from 2910-2980 fps. I've even confirmed drop out to 600 yards with this data and it is spot on. On this day, however, the chrono was reading approxiamately 100 fps slow. I just installed a new battery, but couldn't determine any malfunctioning. It was an overcast day with about 3-4" of snow on the ground, and the chrono never failed to show a readout... I'm not sure, but that's just a disclaimer. 

My initial plan was to clean the barrel in-between each powder change, but it was too cold outside for that. So I just started with a clean barrel, and ended up with a dirty one...

I was also going to check ejection of each round, but with 3-4" of snow on the ground this was practically impossible. Hopefully next time.

Two shots per each charge except for Win 748 (only 1 per charge)

Results:

H335:

26.5 gr.- 2672 fps (clean bore), 2715
26.8 gr.- 2732, 2744
27.1 gr.- 2780, 2801
27.4 gr.- 2812, 2790
27.7 gr.- 2807, 2849 (light swipes) (max for fresh brass)
28.0 gr.- 2875, 2819 (light swipes) (loose primer pockets upon decapping) (slight compression)

H322:

24.5 gr.- 2551, 2594
24.8 gr.- 2633, 2641
25.1 gr.- 2698, 2682
25.4 gr.- 2692, 2683 (roughly max for fresh brass)
25.7 gr.- 2764, 2781 (huge velocity increase) (swipes and loose primer pockets upon decapping)
26.0 gr.- 2769, 2773 (swipes and loose primer pockets upon decapping) (slight compression)

AA2200:

23.5 gr.- 2520 (No lock back), 2571
23.8 gr.- 2626, 2661
24.1 gr.- 2701, 2706
24.4 gr.- 2687, 2722
24.7 gr.- 2712, 2716
25.0 gr.- 2776, 2777
Not max yet, started too low. Could go .5 - 1.0 gr. higher next outing. Seems like very consistent powder for application.

Xterminator:

26.0 gr.- 2751, 2714
26.3 gr.- 2752, 2741
26.6 gr.- 2794, 2811
26.9 gr.- 2796, 2826
27.2 gr.- 2844, 2888 (not sure on last reading)
27.5 gr.- 2843, 2854
Not max yet. Could go .5 - 1.0 grs. higher next outing. 

TAC:

27.0 gr.- 2731, 2707
27.3 gr.- 2736, 2724
27.6 gr.- 2752, 2754
27.9 gr.- 2795, 2764
28.2 gr.- 2814, 2803
28.5 gr.- 2858, 2830 (compressed)
Very consistent in application. Predictable increase in velocity per charge increase. Max for fresh brass because of compression. Go up to 29.5 gr. for fire formed.

Win 748:

26.4 gr.- Didn't fire, showed off to friends...
26.7 gr.- 2584 (compressed)
27.0 gr.- 2599 (very compressed)
27.3 gr.- 2621 (very compressed, had to turn seater down, leaving marks on bullet)

Too slow of powder. May see how much can fit into fire formed cases.

Even though my chrono was reading slow (blame Santa, he didn't show up with a new Lab Radar or Magnetospeed) I still think that there is some valuable info here. 

The powders that are showing great promise are Ramshot Xterminator, Ramshot TAC, AA2200, and even H335. I will continue my focus on them over the next few outings. 

Next goals: Find max on Xterminator and AA2200 with fresh brass.
                 Find max with H335 and TAC on fire formed brass. 

I'm really liking Xterminator, AA2200, and TAC so far. I'm hoping TAC works out for this cat because I have somewhere around 12 lbs of it on hand!  
We'll let the barrel decide though. 

Happy New Year everyone!



0
RangerJoe

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 3,232
Reply with quote  #12 
Excellent test data & reporting!  I don't have an Ocelot (yet) - but these numbers are enticing!
__________________
Sua Sponte | Ranger Joe
0
wikster1983

Avatar / Picture

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 952
Reply with quote  #13 
Nice work! Keep us posted!
__________________

A good marksman can make shots past 500 yards; a good hunter doesn't need to
0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #14 
Update:

1/6/2018

The Ocelot is continuing to grow in velocity and pressure... In some cases, a little too much! (Onto that later)

Today is the warmest it's been here since I last shot the Ocelot (30 degrees on 12/28/17 and 40 degrees today, yay!)

There was still too much snow on the ground to test ejection, but I did test a single fouling shot. Win 748 in fresh brass ejected at about 3:30 position with a clean, dry bore. Good enough!

I used my trusty 257 "Bob" to check the chrono again, and have came to a realization. The gun is an old Ruger M77 with an enormous chamber! The brass tested has been neck sized five times and is just now coming up to chamber size. I haven't chronoed this brass since the second firing and have switched over to keg of powder instead of a 1 lb. er. This lot of powder must be slower, and the brass has more internal capacity than when previously chronoed, hence the lower velocity readings.  Oh well, the various animals i've shot with it over the past year didn't know it was running a little slow!!! (as you'll see, the chrono was reading fine)

With each powder, I started off where I left off from the last test, whether it be from fresh brass or fire formed brass.

All rounds were once again tested with the discontinued Hornady 87 gr. SP.

Onto the results from today. 

Obligiatory target pic
257ocelotchronofandff.jpg 



Fresh Brass


Xterminator:

27.5 gr.- 2881, 2867 (compressed)(chrono read almost exacty what it read on previous outing)
27.8 gr.- 2882, 2903 (compressed)
28.1 gr.- 2914, 2897 (way compressed)(1 loose primer pocket upon decapping, could be brass)(no swipes)

Room to go up on fire formed brass. Not concerned with loose pocket. Try to go up to 28.4-28.7 gr. with fire formed brass on next outing depending on compression. Will have to use drop tube. Plenty of room to go up with velocity.


AA2200:

25.0 gr.- 2761, 2791 (chrono read almost exactly what it read on previous outing)
25.4 gr.- 2848, 2856 (I chose this increase in charge because I wanted to find max faster, and did)(Huge velocity increase)(Over max)(slight                                             swipes)(slight cratering)(loose primer pockets upon decapping)
25.7 gr.- 2882, 2863 (Over max)(swipes)(cratering)(1 loose primer pocket upon decapping)
26.0 gr.- 2915, 2904 (Over max)(major swipes)(cratering)(loose primer pockets upon decapping)

Found max real quick with this one! All of the pockets were checked for resistance while decapping with a universal decapper, and then checked with a Ballistic Tools Swage Gauge. Will still try up to 25.5 gr. with fire formed brass on next outing. Powder may be a little fast for this barrel length. Still hoping for more from this powder. 

I'm not 100% sure about whether or not this is a true max. I say this because I am still using some brass that has been known to have slightly over swaged pockets, even though I check each one with the swage gauge before use (the same brass I use in my 277 WLV, and documented it before) It is better to be safe than sorry though, so for this post using my brass, I consider a max, max!!! Stay safe people!

Ok, onto fire formed brass!

Fire Formed Brass


H335:

28.0 gr.- 2852, 2844
28.3 gr.- 2877, 2865 (1 loose primer pocket upon decapping)(no swipes)(Roughly max)
28.6 gr.- 2911, 2909 (100% case fill) (1 leaking primer pocket)(loose primer pockets upon decapping)(minor swipes)(Over max for this brass, for now)

All powder was put in cases with standard funnel. Max is somewhere around 28.5 grs. I had really high hopes for this powder, and especially the last powder charge when I saw the consistency. I will try it again with cases that have been fire formed with lower known powder charges.


TAC:

28.5 gr.- 2895, 2849 (not sure on the first reading)
28.8 gr.- 2863, 2884 (compressed)
29.1 gr.- 2891, 2905 (compressed)
29.4 gr.- 2950, 2953 (way compressed)(max charge)

This powder is still looking good for this application, except you have to use a drop tube to get the most out of it! The primer pockets at 29.4 gr. were starting to get a little loose, but will still last one more firing. This will be the first powder I choose for accuracy testing next time out.

Conclusion:

The Ocelot continues to do pretty well. We're getting to know one another, a little better all of the time.

It definitely prefers powders in the burn rate between AA2230/Xterminator and H335 and TAC. (At least with a 20" barrel)

I don't know if 3000 fps is doable with any powder and 87 gr. bullet in a 20" barrel. I'm sure it is easily doable with a 22".

Xterminator looks like it may be hard to beat for velocity (already over 2900 with fresh brass)

TAC seems very consistent and speedy (small extreme spreads and 2950 fireformed)

H335 is workable. (2875 fps before pressure signs)

Next goals:

-Find max for fire formed brass with both Xterminator and AA2200.

-Fire some more low powered fresh brass to obtain brass to retest H335 in fire formed brass.

-Start 100 yd accuracy testing with Ramshot TAC.

-Make some more brass.





0
RangerJoe

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 3,232
Reply with quote  #15 
Once again - excellent testing & reporting.  Thanks for post!
__________________
Sua Sponte | Ranger Joe
0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks RJ.
0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #17 
Well this dumb cold hasn't left my system as of yet, but I got tired of looking at loaded rounds for the Ocelot and just had to shoot them. The weather really hasn't cooperated for long shooting sessions. Yesterday at 6 a.m. it was 38 degrees with no wind... 5 hours later, it was a whopping 8 degrees out and windy... No shooting. Today, it started out very cold. 3 degrees this morning and lots of humidity, but by the time I had finished feeding all of the cows it was up to almost 18... With no wind!!! I'm gonna shoot! (Albeit, a quick range session)

A few days ago I loaded up some rounds with the same 87 gr. Hornady SP that I've been using along with Ramshot TAC from 28.4-29.4 grs., with three shots per charge, in twice fired brass. I also loaded up a few rounds of fresh brass at 27.6 grs. because looking over data that charge showed a great extreme spread when fired over the chronograph. 

Here is the accompanying target:
I'm tickled pink!!! And I'm sure if the dummy behind the stick wasn't seeing the crosshairs rise and lower with every heartbeat because of this dumb cold and the temp, the results would have been even better!

257ocelot87TAC.jpg 
As you can see, Ramshot TAC looks like a mighty capable performer in the Ocelot. I'll still have to test from 29.0-29.4 gr. as the weather warms up, and maybe adjust the seating depth a little, but I'm almost there with this powder and bullet combo. .3's and .4's are great from a round like this. If these will repeat, I am there!

And the fresh brass test of 27.6 grs. looks pretty good as well. I didn't mark it on the target, but that's a .708" group. Looks like a decent fire forming load!

I'll still test Ramshot Xterminator in fire formed cases (I think it's going to perform well too), but as far as accuracy is concerned, Ramshot TAC is all that I need with 87 gr. bullets in the .257 Ocelot!

Onward to 100 grainers!!!


0
MDWS

Avatar / Picture

ADMINISTRATOR
Registered:
Posts: 4,979
Reply with quote  #18 
[thumb]
__________________
Don't mistake kindness for weakness...


We are charged with upholding the constitution, from all threats, foreign or domestic, and we will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.


-Mark



0
RangerJoe

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 3,232
Reply with quote  #19 
[thumb] Double Ditto [thumb]
__________________
Sua Sponte | Ranger Joe
0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #20 
I was able to get out today and start messing with some 100 gr. bullets and do a little more testing with the 87 gr. Hornadys.

There was no accuracy testing, only chronographing. It was a balmy 38 degrees today, and no wind...

The main goal today was to find max using the 87 gr. Hornady with AA2200 and Ramshot Xterminator in fireformed cases.

The secondary goal was to start finding powder charges in the 100 gr. weight using 100 gr. Speer HP, (I only had 20 of them, which are probably 25-30 years old), so the testing for these only consisted of 20 shots.

Bonus: I was even able to check ejection on a few rounds since most of the snow had melted (I only lost one round)

First up was the 87 gr. 

Fresh cases to check chrono.

Powder: Ramshot TAC (27.6 gr.)
Three shots: 2773, 2768, 2766 (This seems to be a great load for fireforming)(Slight velocity increase over previous test on 30 degree day.)
Ejection: 3:30

Fireformed brass with 87 gr. 

Powder: AA2200
Ejection: 3:00

25.0 gr.- 2751, 2772 (slow)
25.3 gr.- 2794, 2831 (a little erratic)
25.6 gr.- 2842, 2854 (Consistent, not max yet.)

This powder still seems a little erratic with this combo, but is kind of settling down towards the top powder charges. A little overgassed, but not bad. Not max yet, could go .3-.6 gr. higher. At least max didn't creep up on me like it did with fresh brass. All primer pockets were checked and were fine upon decapping. Will test one more time starting at 25.6 gr. and working up.

Powder: Ramshot Xterminator
Ejection: 3:30

28.1 gr.- 2942, 2956 (Max or very close to max)(slight compression)
28.4 gr.- 2958, 2974 (When I saw the last number, I had high hopes for the next charge weight reaching 3000 fps...)(slight cratering)                                                         (Loose primer pockets upon decapping)(Over max)(compression)
28.7 gr.- 2979, 2971 (Didn't quite make it to 3000 fps.)(cratering)(loose primer pockets upon decapping)(Over max)(Way compressed)

With this powder, I actually gained velocity over the previous fresh brass test from the last test!!! I'm not sure why. 28.1 gr. on the last test with fresh brass was approximately 2900 fps, whereas this test with fireformed brass was 2949 fps! The temperature in both cases was almost identical (40 vs. 38). The only thing that may have changed was I might have used some heavier cases... Not sure on that one though. Anyways, I found max when decapping. The primers at 28.4 gr. and 28.7 gr. were way loose after decapping! Will retest with cases fireformed with lower known charges. Does anyone notice anything that I don't? This one has me confounded? 

Onto the 100 gr. bullets.

I chose three powders for this bullet weight based upon data collected with the 87 gr. bullets. (I should have chosen 4)!!! I found that 100 gr. bullets take up a lot more space, and with the profile of the 100 gr. Speer HP, I hit the lands at roughly 2.241 oal. Therefore, I chose a .020 jump and loaded the following charges to 2.220 oal using a drop tube for each. 

Fresh Brass

Powder: Ramshot TAC

26.3 gr.- 2538, 2532 (slight compression)
26.6 gr.- 2552, 2555 (compression)
26.9 gr.- 2578, 2566 (compression)
27.2 gr.- 2591 (Way compressed)(only 1 shot at this charge)(bullet deformation starting)(had to turn seater down)
27.5 gr.- 2599 (Max compression)(only 1 shot at this charge)(bullet deformation)(had to turn seater down)

I ran out of case capacity in a hurry with this combination. I believe if I could have loaded to a longer oal this may be a good powder. Appears too slow for this length though.

Powder: H335

26.4 gr.- 2610, 2587(slight compression)
26.7 gr- 2597, 2615(compression)
27.0 gr.- 2656, 2632 (compression)

There is a large jump with this powder inbetween the last two charges, but still not max. All primer pockets were good upon decapping and could go .3 gr. higher before too much compression. Still has potential.

Powder: Ramshot Xterminator
(Only 1 rd. per charge due to quantity of bullets)

25.5 gr.- 2546 (slight compression)
25.8 gr.- 2565 (compression)
26.1 gr.- 2587 (compression)
26.4 gr.- 2597 (way compressed)(had to turn seater down)(slight bullet deformation)
26.7 gr.- 2622 (way compressed)(had to turn seater down)(bullet deformation)
27.0 gr.- 2663 (max compression)(had to turn seater down)(extreme bullet deformation)

This powder appears to be a little too bulky. Not good in application at this length. Would work with longer oal. Larger jump on last charge. Could still go up though, no pressure signs. 

I wish I would have tested AA2200 with this combo. I believe I could have found a max in fresh brass with it because of load density.  

Overall, the 100 gr. bullets are going to make the Ocelot a totally different animal. Since I don't have anymore 100 gr. Speer HP's left, and I don't think they work real well in this application (I had to load them way short), I'm going to ditch them and try some 100 gr. Nosler BT's next. I've already measured some, and found that I can load up to 2.295 mag length and have a mile to spare before they touch rifling. 

Goals for next outing:

Retest both Ramshot Xterminator and H335 with 87 gr. bullets in fireformed cases to find true max velocity!

Retest 29.0 gr. - 29.4 gr. Ramshot TAC in fireformed cases at 100 yd for accuracy (if temperature is warm enough)

Start testing 100 gr. Nosler BT in fresh brass loaded to 2.295 oal with Ramshot TAC, Ramshot Xterminator, H335, and AA2200.

That's all for now!
0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #21 
Update: 1/17/18

It was a pretty decent day, today. Sunny and 41 degrees.

A little windy, so no accuracy testing. Just chronographing loads!

I planned on testing the 100 gr. Nos BT loaded to 2.295, which i did, but the other night while messing around in the reloading building I found an old unopened box of 117 gr. Sierra Gamekings that I had for another project 10 or 11 years ago, and didn't use. When I held them up side by side with the 100 gr. Noslers, they weren't any longer overall, and had a slightly blunter profile... Hmmm, game on!!

I checked them in my barrel for oal and found that they would hit the rifling at roughly 2.285, so I loaded some up to 2.265 with the same four powders that I was using for the 100 bullets: Ramshot TAC, Ramshot Xterminator, H335, and AA2200. I only reduced the charges slightly for the first three powders over the 100 gr. loads, knowing from my limited data with the Speer 100 gr. HPs that TAC, Xterminator, and H335 were all a tad slow and didn't show any pressure signs.  I reduced the charge for AA2200 by one grain from what I had loaded for the 100 gr. Nosler Ballistic tips.

Goals: Achieve 2700 fps for 100 gr. bullets
          Achieve 2500 fps for 117 gr. bullets

Onto the data!!!

All data collected today using fresh brass!
A drop tube was used for every powder charge except the AA2200 data.

87 gr. Hornady chrongraph check

(5 shots of 27.6 gr. Ramshot TAC)
2783, 2790, 2781, 2791, 2788
Man, that load is consitent!!! Only slightly faster due to temperature differnce from the other day.

100 gr. Nosler BT
LC 09 (Fresh)
CCI 450

Powder: Ramshot TAC
(Only 1 shot per charge because of compression)

25.4 gr.- 2470(slight compression)
25.7 gr.- 2483(compression)
26.0 gr.- 2487(compression)
26.3 gr.- 2498(heavy compression)(bullet deformation)
26.6 gr.- 2519(heavy compression)(bullet deformation)
26.9 gr.- 2518(max compression)(heavy bullet deformation)

Too slow of a powder for application. Ran out of velocity way before any pressure signs.

Powder: H335

26.0 gr.- 2521, 2562(Had a case rupture on the side... Probably previous life problem)(slight compression)
26.3 gr.- 2563, 2555(compression)
26.6 gr.- 2574, 2588(heavy compression)(bullet deformation)
26.9 gr.- 2596, 2605(max compression)(heavy bullet deformation)

This powder appears a little too slow for application, at least in fresh cases. I'd never had a side on a case rupture before, (kinda wild) and it wasn't the last one today. No pressure signs, may test in fire formed cases.

Powder: Ramshot Xterminator

24.9 gr.- 2514, 2530(compression)
25.2 gr.- 2535, 2555(heavy compression)(bullet deformation)
25.5 gr.- 2558, 2571 (heavy compression(bullet deformation)
25.8 gr.- 2606, 2597 (heavy compression)(heavy bullet deformation)

This powder also appears a little too bulky for application. No pressure signs, will try in fireformed cases. 

Powder: AA2200

I started low with this powder, because I knew that it was a step faster in burn rate compared to the other powders tested and I don't have a lot of experience with it.

23.6 gr.- 2545, 2585(roughly 100% case fill)
23.9 gr.- 2609, 2618(slight compression)
24.2 gr.- 2634, 2621(slight compression)
24.5 gr.- 2661, 2668(compression)

As you can see, this powder is a strong contender for this application. All powder was put in cases with just a standard funnel, so there is room to go up with a drop tube. I was seeing no pressure signs despite the larger increases in velocity. I will test some more fresh cases with this powder and go up .3-.6 gr. 2700 fps might be possible in fresh cases, and even more in fire formed! 

Onto the 117 gr. Sierra Gameking

117 gr. Sierra Gameking
LC 09 (Fresh)
CCI 450

Powder: Ramshot TAC

25.6 gr.- 2395, 2424(slight compression)
25.9 gr.- 2422, 2405(compression)
26.2 gr.- 2423, 2439(compression)
26.5 gr.- 2477, 2462(heavy compression)(bullet deformation)

Powder is a bit slow for application. No pressure signs. May try in fire formed cases. 

Powder: H335

25.6 gr.- 2457, 2457(consistent)(100% case fill)
25.9 gr.- 2481, 2487(slight compression)(Max)(slightly loose primer pockets upon decapping)(minor swipes)
26.2 gr.- 2497, 2507(compression)(Over Max)(swipes)(slight cratering)(loose primer pockets upon decapping)
26.5 gr.- 2495, 2528(compression)(Over Max)(heavy swipes)(cratering)(loose primer pockets upon decapping)

Hit max real fast with this one, and at a little lower velocity than expected. May be an average powder for application... May try in fire formed cases.

Powder: Ramshot Xterminator

25.1 gr.- 2474, 2475(consistent)(slight compression)
25.4 gr.- 2518, 2509(Max)(compression)(consistent)
25.7 gr.- 2535, 2552(Over Max)(heavy compression)(bullet deformation)(minor swipes)(loose primer pockets upon decapping)
26.0 gr.- 2567, 2588(Over Max)(heavy compression)(bullet deformation)(swipes)(minor cratering)(loose primer pockets upon decapping)

Was able to achieve 2500 fps with this powder before max pressure(barely)! Will try again in fire formed cases.

Powder: AA2200

22.6 gr.- 2427, 2440
22.9 gr.- 2481, 2467
23.2 gr.- 2466, 2476(Ruptured another case on the side... No idea why)
23.5 gr.- 2516, 2515 (Roughly 100% case fill)(Consistent)

This powder looks great for this application as well. Was able to achieve 2500 fps with room to spare. Not close to max yet. Will go .3-.9 gr. higher next outing with fresh brass!
 

Conclusion:

Longer bullets in the Ocelot eat up valuable powder space!!!! Flat base bullets may be the ticket in both weights tested and would allow me to keep using all powders on hand, but until funding allows I'll just keep testing with what I have.

The 100 gr. Nosler BT is a long bullet. I didn't quite achieve 2700 fps with any powder tested. A flat base bullet in this range may be a better ticket for the Ocelot, but I believe 2700-2750 fps may be achievable in fire formed cases using Ramshot Xterminator or AA2200(definitely this one)! More experimintation is mandated[smile].

The 117 gr. Sierra Gameking may be a real sleeper in this caliber for short to medium hunting on heavier game, or much farther range on light game. 2600 fps might be possible in fire formed cases, using AA2200 or a similar burn rate powder. With a ballistic coefficient of .410(G1) and a minimum impact speed of 2000 fps, I could legitimately take game to roughly 350 yds., while maintaining well over 1000 ft. lbs. of energy on target at my elevation of 4900 ft. That is damned cool from this small of case!! Will have to water jug test at various distances to confirm adequate expansion once optimum loads are found.

Goals for next outing: 

-Still retest 87 gr. Hornady SP with Ramshot TAC 29.0-29.4 for accuracy(weather permitting)

-Find max for 87 gr. Hornady SP with H335 and AA2200

-Test Ramshot Xterminator with 100 gr. Nos BT in fire formed cases(starting at 25.8 gr.)

-Find max for AA2200 with 100 gr. Nos BT in fresh cases (starting at 24.5 gr.)

-Test Ramshot Xterminator with 117 gr. Sierra Gameking in fire formed cases (starting at 25.4 gr.)

-Find max for AA2200 with 117 gr. Sierra Gameking in fresh cases (starting at 23.5 gr.)


That's all til next time.
0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #22 
Here's a pic of the two cases that ruptured. Like I said, I have no clue as to why they did that. One was on a very mild load, and the other one happened on a mid level load with a different bullet and powder.
257ocelotcrackedcases.jpg 
Disregard the really dry hands in the pic. Winter time in Wyoming will do that to you!!

0
wikster1983

Avatar / Picture

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 952
Reply with quote  #23 
I too have had ruptured cases like yours- I'm baffled as well. Hopefully some one will chime in with scientific answers! (RJ usually shines here)

Cabob- You are killin' some powder and pills! Love the testing! I can't get time to get set up and test lately, so I'm glad to see you can! Yes, this little cartridge is pretty impresive by any standards! Would be nice to see .25 cals back on the board as popular vs. cult caliber (where it sits now), but thats just my dream. Nice job, keep posting your tests!

__________________

A good marksman can make shots past 500 yards; a good hunter doesn't need to
0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #24 
Thanks Wikster. This is my slow time of year. When the weather is crappy out, I have ample time to reload... And when it's nice.... Well, I go out and shoot! (After the chores are done, of course.)
0
RangerJoe

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 3,232
Reply with quote  #25 
Cabob - how many times have you annealed these cases - and the last time?  These 'cats have "blown out bodies" (i.e., less body taper, hence more internal capacity) compared to the parent case. Doing so stresses the case brass.  I'd surmise it would be best to anneal before and after the first fire-forming operation... and perhaps a bit deeper down the body than typical neck/shoulder annealing. 
__________________
Sua Sponte | Ranger Joe
0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.