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Lights

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Reply with quote  #26 
The 200gr Hornady Lever Evolution and the 180 Speer don't look to bad if I can get them moving fast enough.
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68BlackRifle

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Reply with quote  #27 
Has anyone tried H110 yet just got mine back and going to get some loads going 
 
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Brunosplace

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Reply with quote  #28 
Could someone please run quickload numbers for IMR4227 powder with Hornady ftx 200gn at 2.250", and IMR4227 with Hornady Interlock RN 200gn at 2.200" please. I cant find any existing data on this combo, find it for the 180gn bullets but not 200gn. Trying to find a good starting point.
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Brunosplace

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Reply with quote  #29 
Thinking about starting with 18.1 grains of IMR4227 and working up to about 21 grains.
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Duckhunter39480

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Reply with quote  #30 
Just searching the web for 357 Max loads and came across this link.  It is from MGM barrels and list the testing notes on their 38, 357 Mag and 357 Maximum barrels.  This information is from an Encore barrel but the data is complete with bullets used, powder type and charge weight, muzzle velocity, group size at 100, 200 and 300 yards, barrel length, twist rate, etc. 

https://matchgrademachine.com/encore-contender-357-magnum-maximum-load-development-results/ 

Of special note is the barrel length used in these test.  "**The barrel used in these tests was 16.25″ long with the rifle setup.  Twist was 1:16.  All shots were at 100 yards and shot from a portable bench.  No pressure signs were encountered.  Testing was accomplished from 10/1/17 to 10/17/17.  Shooting days were chosen for mild, windless conditions.**" 

They also post testing developments on other calibers as well 

I have the barrel installed and its ready to shoot but I am waiting on my scope.  It was backordered!
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Moleman

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Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunosplace
Thinking about starting with 18.1 grains of IMR4227 and working up to about 21 grains.

Haven't used either of those two bullets, but have used IMR4227.  Here's the QuickLoad guesses based off of a 33.5gr water capacity.  I'd work up any new load. 

200gr FTX, 2.250 COL IMR4227
18.1gr    91% case density, 31K psi, 1602 fps. 
20.0gr    100%   ""    41K psi,  1756 fps. 
21.5gr    108%   ""     51.9K psi,  1878 fps. 


200gr RN-innerlock  2.2 COL  IMR4227
18.1gr    82%       26K psi,  1549 fps.
22.0gr    99.7%    44K psi,  1848 fps. 
23.5gr    106.5%   54K psi, 1962 fps.
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Brunosplace

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Reply with quote  #32 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moleman
Haven't used either of those two bullets, but have used IMR4227.  Here's the QuickLoad guesses based off of a 33.5gr water capacity.  I'd work up any new load. 

200gr FTX, 2.250 COL IMR4227
18.1gr    91% case density, 31K psi, 1602 fps. 
20.0gr    100%   ""    41K psi,  1756 fps. 
21.5gr    108%   ""     51.9K psi,  1878 fps. 


200gr RN-innerlock  2.2 COL  IMR4227
18.1gr    82%       26K psi,  1549 fps.
22.0gr    99.7%    44K psi,  1848 fps. 
23.5gr    106.5%   54K psi, 1962 fps. 


Thank you Sir!! I am going to put a few together, and hopefully can get to the range this weekend.
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Portsider

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Reply with quote  #33 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duckhunter39480
Just searching the web for 357 Max loads and came across this link.  It is from MGM barrels and list the testing notes on their 38, 357 Mag and 357 Maximum barrels.  This information is from an Encore barrel but the data is complete with bullets used, powder type and charge weight, muzzle velocity, group size at 100, 200 and 300 yards, barrel length, twist rate, etc. 

https://matchgrademachine.com/encore-contender-357-magnum-maximum-load-development-results/

The MGM loads are tested in very long freebore chambers with the bullets seated out long.

I have a MGM 357 Rem Max barrel, with their standard freebore in the throat. My freebore is very close to .230" and the longest loaded OAL I can get with the 200gr FTX is 2.361".

The OAL numbers they have for their 200gr FTX loads are within a length that will fit my chamber, but some of their 180gr XTP OAL's are way too long for my chamber. They have a "180 Grain Hornady XTP / JHP" listed @ "Seat O.A.L 2.420″ ". That has to be a miss print. That length puts the bullet out of the case neck. I can run the 180gr XTP up to the lands @ 2.020" OAL.

They load tested with Rem 7 1/2 primers. I use the CCI 450 and my Lil'Gun loads test at much higher velocities. The Rem 7 1/2 did not shoot as tight in ladder tests as the CCI 450 with Lil'Gun, so I just continued testing with the CCI 450.

Lil'Gun seems to need to hit a certain pressure to burn consistent and give low extreme spreads. In my MGM barrel I tested a ladder with the 180gr XTP to 25grs and saw the trend, so I went with a 5 shot group test for 24.5, 25.0 and 25.5 grains, and had the lowest extreme spread and best group at 25.5grs. The average velocity was 2285 fps in a 21" barrel. The bullets were seated out to 2.011" and crimped in the cannelure closest to the base of the bullet. This load will be too hot for the 357AR, but tells the story on how Lil'Gun likes to burn with the CCI 450 primers.

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Bajabusdoc

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Reply with quote  #34 
I wunder if that is why H110 does better with light bullets and lil gun does better with heavy. Any inputs welcomed
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Portsider

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Reply with quote  #35 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajabusdoc
I wunder if that is why H110 does better with light bullets and lil gun does better with heavy. Any inputs welcomed

H110/W296 is actually a faster burning powder than Lil'Gun in the Max.

Lil'Gun gives the best velocity with the 180gr bullets, but A1680 will hit the same velocities as the Lil'Gun loads with the 200gr bullets, and with the A1680 loads doing it with much less pressure.

A1680 will also shoot tighter groups than Lil'Gun, but it has to be heavily compressed to get enough powder in the case to get enough velocity. A1680 also does best with the hottest primers. My A1680 loads do best with Fed 205 primers and new brass. The new cases give more neck tension, and that gives higher velocities and tighter groups with the A1680.

Lil'Gun also has a higher energy due to it's higher nitro content. Lil'Gun like other ball powders works best loaded at high pressure with the hottest primers.

Lil'Gun burns too hot for the revolvers though. It has been found to erode away the breach end of the barrels, from the gases that pass thru the cylinder gap. Freedom Arms discovered this after testing Lil'Gun in their revolvers, when they had customers needing their barrels replaced long before they should have been shot out.

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Bajabusdoc

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Reply with quote  #36 
1680 when you say compressed is that 105% or how much? And lil gun also? I stop at 103 to 105%, is that too little?
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Portsider

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Reply with quote  #37 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bajabusdoc
1680 when you say compressed is that 105% or how much? And lil gun also? I stop at 103 to 105%, is that too little?

In the 357 Rem Max my compressed loads with A1680 are very hard to seat the bullet to fit the throat on the first pass thru the seater. I had to use the seating stem from my 35 Rem dies for the rifle bullets. I have read that the new RCBS 38/357 dies come with a rifle style seating stem.

That powder is way too slow for the Max, but it will run well with the 200gr bullets. For the A1680 loads I full length resize fired brass with a Lee carbide factory crimp die. That leaves the case body just under the chamber size, but the neck is too loose for a .358" bullet. I give the brass another pass to size just enough of the neck below the bullet base with a 38/357 carbide size die. That leaves a little more space in the case for the powder. I only do a few hunting loads this way, and measure them all for OAL with a Hornady Lock-N-Load Bullet Comparator before I take them off the loading bench. 

My freebore length will let me load up to 28.3 grains of A1680 with a 200gr FTX. A load of 27.7g grains is about all I want to load, if the brass is not fire formed and the case body sized with the Lee carbide factory crimp die.


G2 Contender Carbine 357 Rem Max.jpg 


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just bill

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Reply with quote  #38 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moleman


Yes, I use the 16" as the basis for velocity unless stated otherwise.  At 16" you've got the majority of the velocity although you will still see increases with a longer barrel.  Here's one of the loads listed from above that my son got his deer with this year.  The actual magneto speed chronograph average was about 20fps faster. If it's hard to read just push the control button and use the mouse wheel to make it bigger. 

  357AR180ssp23.5W296-33.5water.jpg 




Thanks for this information, I'm very QL challenged. Now I have to figure the info for a 50 year old Lyman mold not on the QL list, a 204 grain .358 round nose gas check. If I knew more about PC,I my experiment with this one.
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Moleman

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Reply with quote  #39 
Bill, if it were me I'd use the QL data for the 208GR FN and go off of the seating depth and not COL.  With the bullet base in the same spot between the two it should be fairly close.  I'd still work it up of course. 
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just bill

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Reply with quote  #40 
I must have an older version because my lyman list doesn't go higher than 168 swc.
Bill

I found it under RCBS.
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Moleman

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Reply with quote  #41 
Sorry Bill, I left out its a RCBS mold.  I was thinking RCBS if that counts for anything [biggrin]     Lee has a copy of it as does NOE.  Might also want to check NOE to see if they have a similar mold and upload their bullet file. 
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Lights

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Reply with quote  #42 
Guys please enter your loads into the spreadsheet to help others.
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Hunter Big Jon

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Reply with quote  #43 
Has anyone tried 158gr plated bullets I was digging through some .357 stuff I had and fond them I think they would be good for fire forming looking for input and maybe a good starting load .h110/w296 or what ever you think would be best.
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Lights

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter Big Jon
Has anyone tried 158gr plated bullets I was digging through some .357 stuff I had and fond them I think they would be good for fire forming looking for input and maybe a good starting load .h110/w296 or what ever you think would be best.
Most plated bullets are only recommend to run at a max velocity of 1250 fps.

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Duckhunter39480

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Reply with quote  #45 
Finally! Finally! Got my new scope and tried some reloads/fire forming loads. Very pleased with this cartridge. I did learn that 15.9 grains of 2400 behind a 190 gn cast bullet will not cycle the action. These did have enough pressure to form the brass (no more wasp wasted). These also grouped ok. I only had a couple of issues with chambering rounds but these were of the operator error type. More to follow...
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Moleman

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Reply with quote  #46 
DUCKHUNTER, you'll likely have to bump up your load another 2.0-2.5gr before it will cycle somewhere in the mid 40K psi range. QL puts a Similar NOE bullet with a .360" seating depth at 47Kpsi with 18.5gr 2400 and a 33.5gr case capacity.   I like how 2400 meters, but for whatever reason the LGS hardly ever have it in stock for the last 4-5 year I've only ever run across it a couple times.  The 208gr-wfn-gc with 18.5gr 2400 was a good performing range load that came in around 47K psi with the earlier 34.8gr water capacity lathe turned cases I was using.  
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Lights

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Reply with quote  #47 
Anyone been loading the 200gr FTX? I picked some up today to try them. Just looking for some load info. There has not been anything entered into the spreadsheet yet for them.
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Lights

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Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lights
Anyone been loading the 200gr FTX? I picked some up today to try them. Just looking for some load info. There has not been anything entered into the spreadsheet yet for them.


How about the 140gr FTX too?

Is nobody doing load development yet besides Wiki and myself? Please add to the spreadsheet if you have some loads that are working.

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lights
Anyone been loading the 200gr FTX? I picked some up today to try them. Just looking for some load info. There has not been anything entered into the spreadsheet yet for them.


I finally got to shoot yesterday. 200 gn FTX  along with 200 gn Interlock RN using IMR4227. Still having feeding issues. I have to re-do my ladders as my chronograph crapped out midway through, making the data useless. On the good side, I saw no pressure signs up to 21.5 grains of powder. I didn't fire any of my H110 powder loads, or the 158 gn HP's because of the chronograph issues. Even though I wasn't trying for accuracy just yet, both bullets performed well. A five shot group of the RN looks like four and it is at 1" wide with the suppressor on it. The FTX managed 10 shots in an area 1.25" x 1.25" with the suppressor.

Very first 10 shots from the barrel, no bore sight, just mounted and fired at 50 yards: 

357AR First 10.jpg 

5 shot group RN:

20180323_173249.jpg 

10 shot group of FTX (can't get it to stop posting upside down[confused]):

20180323_173226.jpg 









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drightler

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Reply with quote  #50 
Forgive me if I missed this information being stated elsewhere, but I wanted to double check. This cartridge works with both 38 caliber (.357) pistol bullets as well as 35 caliber (.358) rifle bullets, correct?
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