Modern Sporting Rifle Evolution
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RangerJoe

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Reply with quote  #426 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogtired
Well, glad I didn't read those articles or my Blackouts might not have shot sub MOA (or my buddy's gun for that matter. With 110gr Barnes or 125gr Nosler BTs, we have highly accurate deer rounds that we've been routinely killing deer with out to about 200 yards, give or take. Actually, the Blackout was designed SPECIFICALLY from the ground up to run both sub and supersonic rounds, giving a shooter different applications from the same gun while delivering more energy downrange than the 556, from what I recall. <snip>
Dogtired: According to Robert S. Silvers (Director of Reasearch, Advanced Armament) 2010 presenter to the DoD, the .300 BLK was in FACT optimized for Subsonic Ammunition FIRST, which is why it has a LONG throat, 1:8" twist and carbine-length gas-system.  Yes, Remington tried selling 123gr FMJ and 155gr OTM ammo to the DoD along with their 220gr Subsonic. DESIGN GOAL criteria #5 on their presented  list is: "Provide the ability to penetrate barriers with high-mass projectiles." 

Penetration, muzzle energy, as well as sound suppression, testing quoted in their briefing was based on 220gr subsonic. Only when looking for high MV numbers did Freedom Group advertise their mi-spec 123gr FMJ, or mean-radius accuracy their 155gr OTM ammo (which was advertised (YMMV) as ~2.5" spread at 100-yards).  That is far from sub-MOA, and that was "marketing speak" from a company trying to sell product.

While the 7.62x35mm was built to handle BOTH super and sub-sonic ammo, it was optimized for subsonic suppressed performance.

I've never seen a human being run a 3.5-minute mile, nor have I seen a car drive 500 MPH; but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen on a regular basis.  I've never seen a 300 BO shoot sub MOA with supersonic ammo.   Although the physics of internal ballistics are against that happening, it might happen regularly. That, however, is not the 300 BO's reputation.

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Tokarev

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Reply with quote  #427 
300BLK can and will shoot well with the right bullets. Barnes 110gr being probably the gold standard for accuracy.
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Starrider

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Reply with quote  #428 
  I am wanting to load a 65 grain HPBT what powser is the best to use for these loads. I used to load the Remington 6mm for my Bolt action Rifle. Can't remember the brand or number on the powder, I do remember I loaded em a little hot at 43.8 gtrains of powder, and it was Cylidrical. But, that was a different shell. NOt a AR-15 action.
  I need some advice with this. Thanks.

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BIGGDAWG

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Reply with quote  #429 
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Originally Posted by Starrider
  I am wanting to load a 65 grain HPBT what powser is the best to use for these loads. I used to load the Remington 6mm for my Bolt action Rifle. Can't remember the brand or number on the powder, I do remember I loaded em a little hot at 43.8 gtrains of powder, and it was Cylidrical. But, that was a different shell. NOt a AR-15 action.
  I need some advice with this. Thanks.



aa2230, h322, benchmark, h335 all will work  322 is a very accurate powder

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Starrider

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Reply with quote  #430 
Thank you I really appreciat this. The AA2230 may have been what I used with the 6mm rem, I just can't be sure Sincerely: Roy Lane
                                                              Lane Custom Hydrographics

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Starrider

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Reply with quote  #431 
 Does Hodgdon make that the 322?
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wikster1983

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Reply with quote  #432 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starrider
 Does Hodgdon make that the 322?

Yes they do, and its temp stable! if your needing something to perform in all types of climates.

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Starrider

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Reply with quote  #433 
I am at Midwayusa looking for it now. Thank you 
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Starrider

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Reply with quote  #434 
Where is the best place to get Brass and Caps for the 6mm Mongoose round? I am assumong that any 6mm round will work?
  I like about a 85 Grain HPBT if I can find them or something close. The Brass is the thing, Brass that will fit all  the other AR-15 Specs.
When Fire Forming, are we using the same load and lead as the hunting load?

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RIGGS68

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Reply with quote  #435 
http://www.jbsfirearms.com/product-p/brass-mongoose.htm

Showing 100 pieces in stock for brass or, like others, make your own. For fire-forming I stocked up on 55 grain SHOTS when SPS had them on sale but you can use almost any bullet for that chore.
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RangerJoe

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Reply with quote  #436 
Roy - you make Mongoose brass from .223 Rem / 5.56x45mm brass. The cases are shortened a little, and sized/formed in a 6mm Mongoose die.  Then they are fire-formed to complete the process.  Fire-forming does 2 things for the Mongoose: it decreases the parent case's taper (which increases internal volume) and it fully sets the steep shoulder (also increasing internal volume).  From that point one, you resize, reload, and shoot like any other bottle neck rifle case.

Currently, no one is loading commercial 6mm Mongoose ammo that I'm aware of.  JBFA (on this forum) may offer pre-formed (but still needing fire-forming) Mongoose brass from time to time.

Many of us use CHEAP 55gr 6mm bullets for the first firing (fire-forming load).  They are cheap and plenty fun to shoot.  Fire forming loads do not have to be crazy light... they just shouldn't be heavy full-power loads.

The heaviest bullets you can use will depend on your barrel's twist rate.  I got slow twist barrels because my only interest is shooting light (<100 gr) bullets fast in my AR-based Mongoose.  Heavier, longer bullets have to be seated deep in the case, which quickly eats up powder volume.  But - that is just my preference; others have faster twist barrels to shoot the heavier (high BC) bullets.  I have had awesome results with 70~90 gr bullets in my 'goose.

I'd like to refer you to the forum posts that talk about making and loading 6mm Mongoose rounds: Lots of useful data there. https://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/6mm-mongoose-specs-and-info-8184656?pid=1292893020



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Starrider

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Reply with quote  #437 
JUst enough to basically get the bullet down range and Specifically form the brass.
  I had been reading that page. you gave me the link to. I used to load my own Bolt Action Remington 6mm Hunting Rounds But, using a .223/5.56 case is a little different.
 I do see that JB's Firearms still has 6mm Mongoose brass at $21/100 which would cut down on the work. NOw, will a NOrmal .223 cap work or a 6mm cap? Or are they the same?
Never loaded .223 before so I don't know the exact answer. I would assume they are the same size.

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bbbrownfield

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Reply with quote  #438 
Primers, or caps as you call them, come in several sizes and types. Small Rifle and Large Rifle and Large and Small  pistol in regular and magnum specs are the main ones. There are some others like the CCI 41, which is more resistant to temperature and vibration extremes.
The primers you seek are the Small Rifle Magnum primers. You can also use the #41 CCI primers on an AR15.
These are for the .223/5.56 and any rifle using that brass to make other cartridges like 277 Wolverine and 6mm Mongoose.
Any other 6mm brass isn't going to work. You must use the .223/5.56 brass and Mongoose dies to build a suitable round.

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wikster1983

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Reply with quote  #439 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starrider
JUst enough to basically get the bullet down range and Specifically form the brass.
  I had been reading that page. you gave me the link to. I used to load my own Bolt Action Remington 6mm Hunting Rounds But, using a .223/5.56 case is a little different.
 I do see that JB's Firearms still has 6mm Mongoose brass at $21/100 which would cut down on the work. NOw, will a NOrmal .223 cap work or a 6mm cap? Or are they the same?
Never loaded .223 before so I don't know the exact answer. I would assume they are the same size.

If by "cap" you mean primer- .223 uses a small rifle primer. A magnum type primer is recomended for best results, but any SRP will set powder off. Many in the AR platform use the CCI 450 or #41, but those are not the only options. There are no designations of primers to caliber, just large or small, pistol or rifle, magnum or standard. Hope that helps.

Edit: Bbb- you beat me to it by a few minutes! lol

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