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BIGGDAWG

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Reply with quote  #76 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostRider32
Hi guys,

I have a Mongoose load question that you guys might be able to help with. I'm looking to fire form some more brass and instead of using 8208 I want to clean out some of my old stock pile of powders that I haven't used in a good while. Does anyone have any good fire forming loads with any of these powders listed? The bullet is a Speer 85 gr. SBT and a CCI-450 primer. I'm not looking for max loads, just something that should cycle the action, form the case and be somewhat mild if possible. I know some of these powders are considered pretty slow but like I said, I'm just trying to burn old powder while forming new brass. Thank for the help.

IMR4064
H4350
H380
AA4064
AA4350
AA1680
AA2700




here are a couple h380 and 2700 basically fill the case and put a bullet on.  watch the case fill percent but it only goes to 50k with 107 percent so  your not going to blow anything up with either and they will probably come close to cycling.

2700.jpg  85sbt h380.jpg 


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GhostRider32

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Reply with quote  #77 
Thanks BIGDAWG. Very nice of you.
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lapriester

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Reply with quote  #78 
Looking at 6X45 Hodgdon data for H335 and 60gr bullets they list 27.5gr max. So, for fire forming my brass with 55gr Dogtowns I'm going to start test loads at 27gr and work up to an accuracy load. I'll probably set the OAL on those .6" shorties at 2.13 which seems to give me plenty of bullet in the neck for adequate neck tension.
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RIGGS68

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Reply with quote  #79 
I picked up "some"90-grain Accubond pulls recently with the intent of achieving 2900 fps. Based on these results, I am going to have to try some more powders or grow a longer barrel! (JK - I have a couple already!)

20" SS SPR 1:8 6 groove
LC mixed F/Formed
COAL: 2.295
90 Accubond
TAC

26.0    2658    12
26.3    2686     5
26.6    2710    13
26.9    2730     9
27.2    2762     7
27.5    2800     9
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RangerJoe

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Reply with quote  #80 
How compressed was the 27.5gr load?  You might have better results with X-term over TAC... 

My best loads with 90gr FMJs in my old 6x45 was from W748, which is somewhere between TAC & X-Term in speed.  It (748) is just a bit bulky for trying to max-pack Mongoose size cases.

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RIGGS68

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Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerJoe
How compressed was the 27.5gr load?  You might have better results with X-term over TAC... 

My best loads with 90gr FMJs in my old 6x45 was from W748, which is somewhere between TAC & X-Term in speed.  It (748) is just a bit bulky for trying to max-pack Mongoose size cases.


I have a limited supply of "slower" powders, however, I picked up some WC844 recently and, based on my 20 Viper trials, it may just be the ticket.

BTW....just on the edge of compression. (Don't worry, I already have a drop tube if it comes to it!) Ideally, I would like to achieve a good hunting load meeting the velocity and accuracy thresholds. I know it will probably end up on the ragged edge, however, I don't plan on reusing the brass.

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RangerJoe

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Reply with quote  #82 
In theory, WC844, H-335, W-748, TAC, and BL-C2 are "supposed" to be very similar in speed.  It sure is worth a try.
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Cabob

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Reply with quote  #83 
About a month ago I had the chance to test out the 90 gr. Nos BT (Accubonds shorter twin) in my custom 21.375" mongoose. Ok, not really custom, Biggdawg lopped off the threaded section of a 22" barrel and made a recessed target crown for me. I used TAC as well.

6mm Mongoose
21.375"(roughly) 1:8 4 groove
90 gr. NOS BT
2.295 OAL
LC 10 (weight sorted)
CCI 450
Ramshot TAC
Temp- 38 f
Altitude 4950 ft

Clean bore, a couple foulers, then testing.

All shots fired over labradar (New self-purchased birthday toy. Yay, me!)

All powder charged with 4" droptube
All powder weighed to .02 gr. (Cool digital scale)

27.0- 2825, 2828 (minor compression)
27.2- 2844, 2845 (compressing)
27.4 2844, 2851 (start turning down seater)
27.6 2867, 2886
27.8 2882, 2902
28.0 2904, 2908
28.6- 2945, 2937 Heavily compressed (too hot) (loose pockets upon decapping)

The only reason I even went to 28.6 gr was because of my previous data with the 87 gr. Hornady out of the 257 Ocelot. I dropped down a grain over max for that caliber (should have dropped a little lower)

2900 fps was doable out of my barrel, but I suspect you'd really have to be pushing it to achieve those velocities (and probably not get acceptable case life) out of a 20" tube.

If the weather ever comes out of the deep freeze around here (hasn't been above 25 degrees in a month with many days hovering around zero) I plan on doing some accuracy testing with the charges listed above (not 28.6)

I'd be curious to see what the mil surplus powder does. Keep us informed.
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lapriester

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Reply with quote  #84 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RIGGS68
I have a limited supply of "slower" powders, however, I picked up some WC844 recently and, based on my 20 Viper trials, it may just be the ticket.

BTW....just on the edge of compression. (Don't worry, I already have a drop tube if it comes to it!) Ideally, I would like to achieve a good hunting load meeting the velocity and accuracy thresholds. I know it will probably end up on the ragged edge, however, I don't plan on reusing the brass.

You will find WC844 is virtually identical to H335. I compared the two with identical loadings for my 6.8/27GPC and saw non difference in POI or accuracy. Then I bought an additional 16# and split it with a friend when American Reloading had a 15% off sale. I use it for 22 Nosler, 5.56, 6.5 Grendel, 27GPC, 308 and 260 Remington and plan on using it in my new Mongoose with 55gr Dogtowns for fire forming and hunting load development with heavier bullets afterward.

At A.R. the stuff is damn cheap, shipped free and no hazmat. My kind of place. I also bought WC-846 (BL-C (2) equivalent) from them. Great powder as well. Used that for my 165gr Elk loads in my 308 AR10 last year that resulted in a dead cow Elk.

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RangerJoe

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Reply with quote  #85 
Hmm - American Reloading?  That's one I never looked into/dealt with.  I'll check them out - thanks!
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lapriester

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Reply with quote  #86 
Sometimes they have good deals on pulled, primed 6.8 brass, 5.56 brass etc. Also bullets from time to time. But, by far, the best deals are on the powder. If you pour the WC powders on the bench and compare to what they say they are equivalent to you'll never tell the difference. I've also not seen any difference in performance from H335 and BL-C(2). Of course to be sure I absolutely stepped up from a bit lower to begin with but, in the end, my charges ended up the same where performance was the same. The prices? Well, $244.99 for 16# of H335 shipped is tough to beat. But hold off for a bit on buying. Every so often they have 5-15% off sales on those already low prices. That last 16# I bought I got for $208.25 shipped.

Get on their mailing list.
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RangerJoe

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Reply with quote  #87 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lapriester
Get on their mailing list.
Done [biggrin]  Thanks!

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RIGGS68

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Reply with quote  #88 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerJoe
Done [biggrin]  Thanks!


I picked up 16lb of WC844 for $202 shipped during their last sale. When I tried it in the Viper (see thread) it ran about 0.5 grains slower than my H335 loadings. They state that every lot varies so it behooves you to ladder different lots. From time to time they have 6mm 95 Fusion pulls in stock and IMO, they are tough to beat as a Mongoose deer bullet. 
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RIGGS68

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Reply with quote  #89 
Well, I ran a ladder with WC844, however, the temperature was 30 F so I don't think I can directly compare the velocities with those I achieved with TAC.(TAC was done indoors @ ~65 F)
For example, my 95 Fusion/TAC loading @ 80 F yields 2790 fps and today was only 2678 fps.

20" 1:8 twist 6-groove
90 Accubond (pulls)
WC844 (surplus)
LC f/formed (mixed)
COAL: 2.290
CCI 450 primer

26.5    2727    17
26.8    2760    3
27.1    2774    11
27.4    2815    12
27.7    2833    27   *Stopped here-flat primers and cratering
28.0     DNF

If I take the liberty of considering the temperature/velocity variance as linear, I could assume an anticipated velocity of ~ 2900 with the 27.1 loading.

100 yard 27.1 group from today:

target_90 Abond.jpg 

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lapriester

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Reply with quote  #90 
American Reloading has a 17% off sale going on for the H335 and BL-C (2) equivalent WC powders right now! Use code madness17 at checkout.
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RedRaider

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Reply with quote  #91 
Got to get out and shoot today-Tupelo, MS weather 72-78 deg. Partly cloudy-calm to light breeze. Just more data for you guys. Goose ran great. 8T20” 3 lb velocity trigger.

Attached Images
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RangerJoe

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Reply with quote  #92 
Wow - that 10-shot group with 24.0gr BenchMark (center target, 3rd page) sure looks excellent!!
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LewisGM

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Reply with quote  #93 
Anybody shooting the 80 gr. Barnes TTSX in their 6mm Mongoose?  I'm trying to decide on powders.  I've tried 27.0 grs. of H335, at 2823 fps, and got decent accuracy, but that load flattens CCI primers too much for me.  I just bought some Ramshot Tac, but haven't tried any loads yet.  Any suggestions?  I'm looking for a good Hog and Deer load.  Lately I've had good luck with the .223 using the 62 gr. Barnes TTSX on a really big sow and a nice 10 point deer, both at about 150 yards.  The nice thing about the Barnes TTSX bullets is they don't fragment and leave little pieces of lead in the animal, since they are solid copper, except for the nylon nose tip.
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lapriester

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Reply with quote  #94 
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RIGGS68

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Reply with quote  #95 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LewisGM
Anybody shooting the 80 gr. Barnes TTSX in their 6mm Mongoose?  I'm trying to decide on powders.  I've tried 27.0 grs. of H335, at 2823 fps, and got decent accuracy, but that load flattens CCI primers too much for me.  I just bought some Ramshot Tac, but haven't tried any loads yet.  Any suggestions?  I'm looking for a good Hog and Deer load.  Lately I've had good luck with the .223 using the 62 gr. Barnes TTSX on a really big sow and a nice 10 point deer, both at about 150 yards.  The nice thing about the Barnes TTSX bullets is they don't fragment and leave little pieces of lead in the animal, since they are solid copper, except for the nylon nose tip.

Mark had some good numbers with TAC..
https://mdws.forumchitchat.com/post/80ttsx-and-tac-michigan-deer-better-hide-8239213?highlight=80ttsx&trail=25
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OldVet

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Reply with quote  #96 
Hey guys, I'm new to the Mongoose world and just tried out my new MagnetoSpeed Sporter yesterday. Never used a chrony before, so I wasn't sure what kind of numbers I'd come up with. I had two sets of H335 and BL-C(2) powders pushing 70-grain HPBTs (Seconds) I snagged from MidwayUSA. I did not record individual shots, just the groups. Load wise, I'm still treading in toe-deep waters and wearing floaties.

I tested the Sporter out first with some fireforming loads with IMR-4198 powder, but found it unsuitable--powderpuff recoil, wouldn't cycle the bcg, and the numbers were all over the place. I needed to get rid of the last of that powder anyhow.

22", 8" ROT barrel. CCI 450 primers on all. Previously FF LC and FC cases.

H335: 5 shots each
26.5 Grains - AV 3104, Hi 3458 (?), Lo 3001, SD 198, ES 457

I have to question the "Hi" shot in this group, and it really skewed the results. 

27.0 grains - AV 3068, Hi 3079, Lo 3056, SD 10, ES 23
27.5 grains - AV 3090, Hi 3102, Lo 3072, SD 13, ES 30
27.8 grains - AV 3140, Hi 3155, Lo 3128, SD 10, ES 27
28.0 grains - AV 3170, Hi 3195, Lo 3154, SD 15, ES 41 (Tightest group, considering these old eyes.)

No primers were harmed (flattened) as a result of this testing. H335 appears to have more consistent potential than BL-C(2).

BL-C(2) 
27.5 grains 15 rounds - AV 2875, Hi 2907, Lo 2840, SD 19, ES 67
28.0 grains 15 rounds - AV 2953, Hi 2971, Lo 2931, SD 17, ES 40
28.5 grains 5 rounds - AV 2994, Hi 3012, Lo 2968, SD 17, ES 44
28.5 grains 10 more rounds - AV 2992, Hi 3012, Lo 968, SD 12. ES 44

I find BL-C powder to be somewhat dirty and voluminous. The 28.5 grains just about fills the neck and needs to be tamped down to seat the bullet. I see where some load higher amounts, but I'm not sure how they manage it.

I actually had 20 rounds of 28.5 grains BL-C but the string was interrupted with five consecutive misfires, for which I have no explanation as of yet. The gun fired perfectly before and after those misfires, The firing pin was checked after the third, had two more misfires, and then the last rounds fired fine. The BCG and parts looked fine upon inspection, and the failed primers had very solid strikes. Tried second strikes on two but no-go.

With that luck, I chose not to buy a Lotto ticket on the way home. As always, comments/suggestions are appreciated.

Oh, the misfire mystery has been resolved. I'll leave it at that...

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