Modern Sporting Rifle Evolution
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neckisred

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Reply with quote  #26 
Winchester may have left a little on the table performance wise? Will be interesting to see if another manufacturer one ups them.
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Moleman

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Reply with quote  #27 
BIGGDAWG, I've had my face pressed up against the window waiting for the ghost of Ed McMahon to deliver it.   Factory ammo will be huge though and hopefully with it more bullet choices.  If the only change is the length, then all all it would take is running a 357AR reamer in another .110" and you're in business. 
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BIGGDAWG

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moleman
BIGGDAWG, I've had my face pressed up against the window waiting for the ghost of Ed McMahon to deliver it.   Factory ammo will be huge though and hopefully with it more bullet choices.  If the only change is the length, then all all it would take is running a 357AR reamer in another .110" and you're in business. 


yep my thoughts also. i have one customer with bolt gun i am doing that for him.

if it takes off and when we have to replace the reamer we may order it and then we can still make both versions.

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battle rattle

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Reply with quote  #29 
1.71" length, they invented that themselves [rolleyes]

will the 357" pills rattle down the our 358" barrels, lose velocity or go faster?
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Moleman

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Reply with quote  #30 
I shoot a lot of the 158gr and 180gr XTP bullets that are .357" as plinking loads.   1.71" "go-gauge"350L-357AR.jpg 

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P Flados

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Reply with quote  #31 
Ok, the reported 1.71" was interesting.

I necked up some 223 and came up with 1.69" +/- 0.005 with no trimming. 

They would have been a little longer if I had left them with a little more of a "wasp waist" profile.

If the 1.71" is max, using necked up brass will probably at least 75% yield for min length.  If the 1.71 is closer to the min, using necked up brass will be a lower percentage.

The dummy rounds show no problems fitting in a modified PMAG with either my 200AR cast bullet or with the Lee 200 gr cast bullet (see below).  I am thinking that the 1.71" case will probably work fine in a standard modified PMAG for at least 95% of the available bullets.

350 legend dummies.jpg

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Moleman

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Reply with quote  #32 
With the 1.6" case length and 180gr+  we were seating them out further to gain case capacity, so the longer case just covers part of that up.   With the lighter bullets  if they'll feed with a longer COL then you'll gain some velocity but not with 180gr+ spitzers that are already at or near max COL. 
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P Flados

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Reply with quote  #33 
I have been working on understanding my feeding issues with some dummy rounds using new bullets I wanted to try. 

For light bullets, a longer case should reduce one specific jamming problem.

This is where the base of the round is forward of the feed lips but is is still "down low", the case is just inside the chamber and the bullet is up against the top of the chamber.

With a longer case, the angle of the round will be slightly less.  This will help it lever the back of the round up so the case can go in the chamber.  


With a longer case, the medium (180 ish) to light bullets can have more powder capacity and/or be farther in the case.  This is actually an improvement.

For me, I will stick with the existing 357AR dimensions for now.  Eventually if the 350 does well, a "conversion" might be an enhancement worth considering.
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Moleman

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Reply with quote  #34 
Try trimming your feed lips back slightly and incrementally, testing along the way. It does look like you've done that with the above mag though.  With an unmodifed feed lips on a Pmag and XTP's they'll feed great at 1.950" but at 2.050" you may start getting some jams because the base hasn't cleared the feed lips long enough to get pushed up so that they'll feed in straight.  Some longer bullets will sort of "lever" themselves into the chamber so it's not an issue with them.  It's buried in the original thread somewhere.
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Portsider

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Reply with quote  #35 

The Winchester site listed it as a rebated rim on that case. The head diameter is most likely larger than the 357AR has room for in the chamber. From the new images on the Winchester site, the case rim measures the same as the 223 Rem, but the case head is .010" larger than the rim. The case head measures to the same size as the .385" that is cut by 357 AR the chamber reamer. The loaded length overall measured out at 2.250" in that image.

https://winchester.com/LandingPage/images/deer/deer-single-bullet.png

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P Flados

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Reply with quote  #36 
Yes, I figured out the the above (a.k.a "standard guidance").  I also fabbed a lap and improved (better bevel / radius) the entrance to the chamber.

My cast 180s & 200s are doing much better now.  Much less gouging off of the side of the boolit just in front of the case (the gouging was happening at the chamber entrance).  They are a near perfect profile for both smooth feeding and minimizing boolit dings. Any bigger mepat and the nose dings get worse.

In regard to my previous post, I was trying to get a 120 TC or a 125 RNFP cast boolit fire forming / plinking load to work.  The light boolits are less smooth, have more damage, and/or more frequently jam.
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Moleman

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Reply with quote  #37 
Yep, you have to have some taper or it will not feed/extract as well especially in an auto loader.   I've always just used a carbide die set as I didn't want to have to lube the cases like you would with a steel die that was made with some taper.  .385" is about what you can get away with before having to go with a steel die. 
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P Flados

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Reply with quote  #38 
Well, If the round is not a total flop, I do expect that there will be somebody that make a tapered sizing die that would actually be useful to 357AR loaders that want to reduce the brass working that we get with pistol dies.  
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bj139

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Reply with quote  #39 
Moleman,
Would 357 mag carbide dies work or are they not long enough to fully size to the base? Would partial sizing work for one specific barrel?
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Moleman

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Reply with quote  #40 
BJ139, a Lee 357 carbide set is what I use on 357AR.  Early on I kept track of how many times the cases were fired and 12+ isn't an issue with resizing with a carbide die.  Ideally a steel die would have a bit of taper added to it, but since I was having good results with the carbide I never modified a steel die.   With .010" case taper the 350 legend will likely use a steel die. 



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P Flados

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Reply with quote  #41 
Mark, you may want to order another batch (or a double batch) of barrels.

You might even want 10 at 0.358" & 10 at 0.357". 

As soon as the actual specs on min /max case lengths become available, there will be a whole new crowd of folks wanting to build 35 cal ARs (now 350 Legends).  I expect you will have a hard time keeping up unless (or until) one of the bigger outfits runs a big batch that can be sold at a lower cost.
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MDWS

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Reply with quote  #42 
Quote:
Originally Posted by P Flados
Mark, you may want to order another batch (or a double batch) of barrels.

You might even want 10 at 0.358" & 10 at 0.357". 

As soon as the actual specs on min /max case lengths become available, there will be a whole new crowd of folks wanting to build 35 cal ARs (now 350 Legends).  I expect you will have a hard time keeping up unless (or until) one of the bigger outfits runs a big batch that can be sold at a lower cost.

We've received a few emails so far but really they want a 350 Legend and not the 357AR we have now...

We will have to make a decision... we still have one barrel in stock, and either the 357AR Max Rimless will fall to the wayside of the 350 Legend, or like you said, people will be banging on our doors for anything similar to it.

Right now I'm just watching.  Blanks aren't a huge delay these days, and we have the reamer.

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Al in Mi

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Reply with quote  #43 
Have they released chamber specs??
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Portsider

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Reply with quote  #44 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Al in Mi
Have they released chamber specs??


Pacific Tool & Gauge is selling a 350 Legend (SAAMI) Chamber Reamer. They may be able to supply you with the reamer print.

Winchester has only stated that "bullet diameter is .357″ with a 1.71″ case length."

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/30-cal-399-cal-chamber-reamers-nopix-/18327-350-legend-saami-chamber-reamer.html?search_query=350+legend&results=1

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Al in Mi

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Reply with quote  #45 
I asked for one.

Buddy of a buddy is there today, sent me this pic.


357 Legend.jpg

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Portsider

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Reply with quote  #46 

Field & Stream video- The Winchester 350 Legend

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RangerJoe

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Reply with quote  #47 
To misquote Spiderman:  With great corporate marketing budgets comes great opportunity (and hyperbole)!
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Portsider

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Reply with quote  #48 
 Pacific Tool & Gauge 350 Legend (SAAMI) Chamber Reamer. 350 Legend chamber reamer..jpg 
 
 

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Al in Mi

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Reply with quote  #49 

.355 groove?? And a
.357 throat, 9mm diameter bullet??
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battle rattle

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Reply with quote  #50 
the date on the print is interesting, and may not be the current revision or approved for production print being that old
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