Modern Sporting Rifle Evolution
Register Calendar Latest Topics Chat
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 1 of 2      1   2   Next
thepenguinknight

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 106
Reply with quote  #1 

I've had this ladder loaded for a few months now waiting to get tested. Finally made it to the range almost 2 weeks ago, lol.

I've really been wanting this bullet to perform. My target velocity was 2450, which would give a slightly better trajectory past 1000 yds than 5.56 mk262. So much potential. But no powder seems to be able to get me there.

Groups were shot at 50 yards. All were in the .5" range, but I was mostly looking for velocity and I was short on time, so the groups weren't recorded except in general.

Here's the results:

Shooter's World Blackout       
120gr (Hornady SST)Temp: 82Elevation: 300ish ft     
Charge# of shotsAve. Velocity (10')ESPrimerOALGroup sizeNotes
202232241S&BSR2.2  
20.53237012S&BSR2.2  
213239413S&BSR2.2  
21.33243318S&BSR2.2  
21.63246742S&BSR2.2 2450, 2460, 2492. The last one had slightly flat primer


I was very impressed with the performance improvement with 120gr SSTs vs AA1680. With 1680, I could barely make it to 2400fps and not without flat/popped primers, and that was at ~65 degrees. This time I made it to/above my velocity target at 82 degrees temperature, with what appears to be a little room to spare in relation to pressure.

Color me happy [smile]

Eventually I'll work up a more precise load, but now that I know I can hit my velocity target I'm very pleased and looking forward to the effort.



ETA: 18" 1-11 barrel
0
RangerJoe

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 3,230
Reply with quote  #2 
Good data - thanks for sharing.  What length barrel and twist? I honestly didn't think one could "safely" push a 120gr bullet above 2400 fps from a WLV in a AR-platform with typical bbl length.  SW Blackout seems to be ideal for this...
__________________
Sua Sponte | Ranger Joe
0
Rifter

Avatar / Picture

First 50
Registered:
Posts: 1,039
Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepenguinknight

I've had this ladder loaded for a few months now waiting to get tested. Finally made it to the range almost 2 weeks ago, lol.

I've really been wanting this bullet to perform. My target velocity was 2450, which would give a slightly better trajectory past 1000 yds than 5.56 mk262. So much potential. But no powder seems to be able to get me there.

Groups were shot at 50 yards. All were in the .5" range, but I was mostly looking for velocity and I was short on time, so the groups weren't recorded except in general.

Here's the results:

Shooter's World Blackout       
120gr (Hornady SST)Temp: 82Elevation: 300ish ft     
Charge# of shotsAve. Velocity (10')ESPrimerOALGroup sizeNotes
202232241S&BSR2.2  
20.53237012S&BSR2.2  
213239413S&BSR2.2  
21.33243318S&BSR2.2  
21.63246742S&BSR2.2 2450, 2460, 2492. The last one had slightly flat primer


I was very impressed with the performance improvement with 120gr SSTs vs AA1680. With 1680, I could barely make it to 2400fps and not without flat/popped primers, and that was at ~65 degrees. This time I made it to/above my velocity target at 82 degrees temperature, with what appears to be a little room to spare in relation to pressure.

Color me happy [smile]

Eventually I'll work up a more precise load, but now that I know I can hit my velocity target I'm very pleased and looking forward to the effort.

Looking at your numbers, 21.0 gr. is where I'd stop.  After that point, your fps per increment starts going up.  That tells me you've passed the node and are starting to push the pressure limits.  If you correct your velocity to the muzzle, you're right at 2400 fps, and that is pretty good for a 120 gr. in the Wolverine.  Also, on your last load, it shows the ES is opening up, and that is where accuracy starts to deteriorate.

__________________
Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.  Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty.  Thomas Jefferson
NRA Benefactor Life Member
ISRA member
0
thepenguinknight

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 106
Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerJoe
Good data - thanks for sharing.  What length barrel and twist? I honestly didn't think one could "safely" push a 120gr bullet above 2400 fps from a WLV in a AR-platform with typical bbl length.  SW Blackout seems to be ideal for this...
Doh. I edited the original. 18" 1-11. Thanks.
0
thepenguinknight

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 106
Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter
Looking at your numbers, 21.0 gr. is where I'd stop.  After that point, your fps per increment starts going up.  That tells me you've passed the node and are starting to push the pressure limits.  If you correct your velocity to the muzzle, you're right at 2400 fps, and that is pretty good for a 120 gr. in the Wolverine.  Also, on your last load, it shows the ES is opening up, and that is where accuracy starts to deteriorate.
I generally agree, although I feel that the small sample size warrants another ladder to confirm the node-- my SOP is to do a larger ladder like this, then hone in on the accuracy node with finer increments to confirm. 2450 is what I was hoping for, and I think it's doable if the accuracy is ok. 2400fps is still very good for this bullet, and I'm happy to have some headroom if I end up choosing to keep it there.
0
MDWS

Avatar / Picture

ADMINISTRATOR
Registered:
Posts: 4,976
Reply with quote  #6 
This is most excellent news. One of the only drawbacks of the WLV over the 6.8SPC for example was the poor results with the 120SST and 1680... this is fantastic results and your work is much appreciated! Heck that's only 10fps than Factory Hornady 6.8SPC ammo out of a 16" bbl! http://m.hornady.com/store/6.8mm-SPC-120-GR-SST/ Now, time for me to get some 120SST's and start loading up, too! How far off the lands were you in your barrel with the 2.2 COAL measurement?
__________________
Don't mistake kindness for weakness...


We are charged with upholding the constitution, from all threats, foreign or domestic, and we will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.


-Mark



0
thepenguinknight

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 106
Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDWS
This is most excellent news. One of the only drawbacks of the WLV over the 6.8SPC for example was the poor results with the 120SST and 1680... this is fantastic results and your work is much appreciated! Heck that's only 10fps than Factory Hornady 6.8SPC ammo out of a 16" bbl! http://m.hornady.com/store/6.8mm-SPC-120-GR-SST/ Now, time for me to get some 120SST's and start loading up, too! How far off the lands were you in your barrel with the 2.2 COAL measurement?

I'm ashamed to say that I haven't gotten the OAL tools yet O.o

I determined seating depth by seating long, then progressively seating it ~.005 deeper at a time till it cleared the lands according to a chamber check, then going another .005 to account for bullet variance. In theory this method gets me ~.01 off the lands, but because this is somewhat less precise than using the proper tools, I'd guess more like .025ish.

I'm excited by the velocity numbers. The next ladder is most likely going to be a while due to a high likelihood of moving in the next month or so, but I'm looking forward to playing some more with this bullet and the 110 SPH using this powder [smile]
0
Rifter

Avatar / Picture

First 50
Registered:
Posts: 1,039
Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDWS
This is most excellent news. One of the only drawbacks of the WLV over the 6.8SPC for example was the poor results with the 120SST and 1680... this is fantastic results and your work is much appreciated! Heck that's only 10fps than Factory Hornady 6.8SPC ammo out of a 16" bbl! http://m.hornady.com/store/6.8mm-SPC-120-GR-SST/ Now, time for me to get some 120SST's and start loading up, too! How far off the lands were you in your barrel with the 2.2 COAL measurement?

Hell, may as well call it the same, because 10 fps is within the average extreme spread range.

__________________
Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.  Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty.  Thomas Jefferson
NRA Benefactor Life Member
ISRA member
0
MDWS

Avatar / Picture

ADMINISTRATOR
Registered:
Posts: 4,976
Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rifter
Hell, may as well call it the same, because 10 fps is within the average extreme spread range.
In fairness yes, same but in an 18" WLV vs a 16" 6.8SPC. The extra 2" of barrel in the WLV probably helps it by 50fps.

__________________
Don't mistake kindness for weakness...


We are charged with upholding the constitution, from all threats, foreign or domestic, and we will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.


-Mark



0
Cabob

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 150
Reply with quote  #10 
This is some great news, indeed. I have some 120 sst's that I've loaded in my 6.8 T/C for years (2635 fps with that set up), but have only messed with them in the WLV with AA2200; less than optimal results. I may have to give them a shot with Bkackout!
0
Dwb

Avatar / Picture

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 284
Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepenguinknight
I generally agree, although I feel that the small sample size warrants another ladder to confirm the node-- my SOP is to do a larger ladder like this, then hone in on the accuracy node with finer increments to confirm. 2450 is what I was hoping for, and I think it's doable if the accuracy is ok. 2400fps is still very good for this bullet, and I'm happy to have some headroom if I end up choosing to keep it there.

Haven't been shooting rifles any lately,been shooting pistols but when I saw what your results was with the 120gr sst I had visions of shooting a deer with them lol. So I loaded some up to see if I could get any accuracy with the 120gr sst. I shot these out of a 16" at 100 yards. All groups was three shots.
cci-450 LC brass
120 sst 2.180 oal. -.020 from lands
Shooters world black out
20.6grs 1.735 group
20.9grs 1.185 group
21.2grs .960. group
21.4grs .830 group

I loaded some more at 21.4 grs so I can chrono them,I'm satisfied with the accuracy of the first group,it's a small sample but maybe it will repeat.
I also loaded some 110gr v-Max's at the same oal with 21.6 grs and they shot a .805 group.so I loaded some more at 21.8 and 22 grs to try out next outing.
Hopefully I can get out with in the next week and get some chrono results.
0
Dwb

Avatar / Picture

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 284
Reply with quote  #12 
Got out this morning to re shoot the 120sst and 110 gr v-max . The 120sst with 21.4 grains group good. The 110 v-max loaded with 21.8grs and 22.0 grains opened up from the previous load of 21.6.

Attached Images
jpeg image.jpeg (240.27 KB, 27 views)

0
MDWS

Avatar / Picture

ADMINISTRATOR
Registered:
Posts: 4,976
Reply with quote  #13 
Thanks DWB!
__________________
Don't mistake kindness for weakness...


We are charged with upholding the constitution, from all threats, foreign or domestic, and we will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.


-Mark



0
mcintosh

Member
Registered:
Posts: 24
Reply with quote  #14 
Excellent work Penguin and DWB. Now you've got me scouring the internet for 120gr .277 bullets, slim pickings.

I did find these, though:  https://www.midwayusa.com/product/128450/factory-second-bullets-68mm-remington-spc-277-diameter-120-grain-polymer-tip-spitzer-boat-tail-box-of-100-bulk-packaged
0
thepenguinknight

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 106
Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcintosh
Excellent work Penguin and DWB. Now you've got me scouring the internet for 120gr .277 bullets, slim pickings.

I did find these, though:  https://www.midwayusa.com/product/128450/factory-second-bullets-68mm-remington-spc-277-diameter-120-grain-polymer-tip-spitzer-boat-tail-box-of-100-bulk-packaged


Those look identical to the 120SST, but with a green tip. Very tempting at that price.
0
Dwb

Avatar / Picture

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 284
Reply with quote  #16 
Shot these loads again this morning this is the third time to shoot these loads. They have repeated to prove to shoot good groups. I think these are worthy loads for a 16" tube.

Attached Images
jpeg image.jpeg (168.30 KB, 26 views)
jpeg image.jpeg (162.73 KB, 22 views)

0
BIGGDAWG

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 2,486
Reply with quote  #17 
i used your data to plug into a drop calculator then i shot some reduced loads for 100 and 200 yard velocities here is what they did on gel with rawhide

penetration.JPG  19840556_1637399906302708_144875788_o.jpg  19840508_1637402622969103_1561744542_o.jpg 


__________________
http://www.7mmvalkyrie.com




0
Dwb

Avatar / Picture

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 284
Reply with quote  #18 
Biggdawg looks like the 120 sst is given good enough expansion for the wlv velocity. I've never kept up with expansion on bullets but 15" is a good bit for deer in my opinion. Most ms deer never go over 200 lbs anyway and I probably would never shoot one over a couple hundred yards in the places I hunt. Thanks for doing all the testing on these bullets,that makes choosing bullets with some confidence.
0
55Gregg

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 71
Reply with quote  #19 
I'm a little late to the party here, but this seems like the hands down winner in the 277 Wolvy hog bullet contest...Just ordered a 20" 1:11 MDWS barrel to go on an AR for hogs.  Any reason I wouldn't bypass the lighter rounds and go with the 120 SST on Shooter Blackout?  Ranges will be between 75 and 150 yds. 

So far I've bought 500 90gr Gold Dots{Hunting} and 300 90gr Sierra Varminters {plinkers} in preparation, but now I that I've seen this thread I'm rethinking that plan.

__________________

You can give peace a chance.... i'll cover you in case it doesn't work out

0
wikster1983

Avatar / Picture

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 951
Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 55Gregg
I'm a little late to the party here, but this seems like the hands down winner in the 277 Wolvy hog bullet contest...Just ordered a 20" 1:11 MDWS barrel to go on an AR for hogs.  Any reason I wouldn't bypass the lighter rounds and go with the 120 SST on Shooter Blackout?  Ranges will be between 75 and 150 yds. 

So far I've bought 500 90gr Gold Dots{Hunting} and 300 90gr Sierra Varminters {plinkers} in preparation, but now I that I've seen this thread I'm rethinking that plan.

Its really up to you. What you have (have coming) will be good as well. For a premium hunting bullet it hard to beat nosler 100AB, in my opinion, but there are many fine bullets to use. I personally couldn't get the 120sst to group in my 1:11 or 1:10 twist rifles to my liking, but they grouped pretty well for me in my 1:7 twist. So again, its really upto you. I know gold dots area favorite around this forum, when available, I would give them a go first. I also believe at wlv speeds the sierra 90 var, will be an awesome deer bullet, was gonna test this year on game, but got side tracked by another caliber, lol.

__________________

A good marksman can make shots past 500 yards; a good hunter doesn't need to
0
Rifter

Avatar / Picture

First 50
Registered:
Posts: 1,039
Reply with quote  #21 
Three of the very best bullets for the Wolverine are the 90 gr. Gold Dot pulls (soon to be available as a component bullet), 90 gr. TNT, and 90 gr Nosler Bonded SB.  All accurate and all very tough.  Others that are good are the 100 Nosler AB, and the 95 MDWS copper.  For me at least, the 120 Hornady is way down on the list, and I'm a big Hornady fan overall.
__________________
Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice.  Barry Goldwater
When Injustice becomes Law, Resistance becomes Duty.  Thomas Jefferson
NRA Benefactor Life Member
ISRA member
0
55Gregg

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 71
Reply with quote  #22 
Ahhh...  Thanks.  I didn't think about stabilizing it I was only looking at the energy side of it. 
I did some comparisons of energy at different velocities with the gold dot, varminter, and the SST.  Even at 2300 FPS the SST does well at range because of its high BC and additional mass.  (Attached)  But all that's for naught without accuracy.

 
Attached Files
pdf 277WLV Energy Comparison.pdf (170.41 KB, 13 views)


__________________

You can give peace a chance.... i'll cover you in case it doesn't work out

0
thepenguinknight

MSR Enthusiast
Registered:
Posts: 106
Reply with quote  #23 
I was getting ok groups with my 18" 11t bbl using the 120 SST, but I've been unable to do further testing thus far. When the weather warms up and i get my loading space back, I plan to dial in a load and test out past 300yds for accuracy. It is definitely all dependent on the individual bbl, kinda like 70gr 223 in a 9t 223 bbl.
0
MDWS

Avatar / Picture

ADMINISTRATOR
Registered:
Posts: 4,976
Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 55Gregg
Ahhh...  Thanks.  I didn't think about stabilizing it I was only looking at the energy side of it. 
I did some comparisons of energy at different velocities with the gold dot, varminter, and the SST.  Even at 2300 FPS the SST does well at range because of its high BC and additional mass.  (Attached)  But all that's for naught without accuracy.
You are correct. At 2400fps, out of a 16" barrel, which is possible, the 120SST delivers more energy and with a BC of .400, it does very well overall. I need to run some with SWBLK, when I tried them last I only had 1680 and they didn't do very well.

__________________
Don't mistake kindness for weakness...


We are charged with upholding the constitution, from all threats, foreign or domestic, and we will bear true faith and allegiance to the same.


-Mark



0
55Gregg

Avatar / Picture

Senior Member
Registered:
Posts: 71
Reply with quote  #25 
im curious because i love the 7.62 x 39 but its got no legs....a WLV 120 SST at 2300 + FPS would be very similar with much longer legs
__________________

You can give peace a chance.... i'll cover you in case it doesn't work out

0
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Quick Navigation:

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.